A good School.

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It seems to me education has very little to do with where you actually end up and whether you can get a job.

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I have to admit, holmes, that your experience does surprise me somewhat. It is true that connections (and recommendations) are important -- they've always worked for me -- I had the impression that "qualifications" are also very important. If your degree does not have the right "major" written on it then your application is going to be deep sixed, regardless what the job actually requires in real life.I do hope that your experience is more typical -- it is the way things should be. Most of the jobs that I have experienced (either my own or that of my colleagues) didn't so much require a particular field of expertise as much as some basic skills acquired any old how and the ability to learn quickly -- which is what any college degree is suppose to indicate.

Define luck. I am curious as to how you differentiate between luck, fate, and reality.

There are several major corporations in my area of the country that just want to see that bachelor's degree. It doesn't seem to matter what it is in. Two companies in particular will hire anyone with a BS or BA for a computer position over someone with associates in relevant fields.

moved to http://< !--UB EvC Forum: Evolution and Specialness of Humanity -->http://EvC Forum: Evolution and Specialness of HumanityMessage 1, please take any replies there = The Queen

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What is your theory of origins so far?

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Concerning human origins, I believe that all meaning and significance to life on earth, relationships with peers, and other humans is lost in the theory of evolution. I feel that I become part of "just another species", and any dignity, or specialness that I may have just loses all of it's value within evolution. What is there to live for, to strive to become, to live a "good" life when I am just a silly creature, without any value higher than that of any another organism's. I don't see the motivation this way. For this, I simply cannot accept evolution as the way things happen. Starting with a blank earth with basic elements, add energy, and more complex substances materialize, (Oparin's Hypothesis) from there over time the complexities increase, as shown clearly in the famous "Miller and Urey" experiment, re-done hundreds of times. I can see the evidence, it's obviously there, within the Fossil Record it is plain as day. As sketchy as it is, the evidence simply sways towards evolution.But given the conditions of my environment, and how I feel inside humanity, evolution is false, and it is an expression of the forgotten God. Evolution attempts to make me feel small, not unique, to make everything insignificant, nothing matters in life, my discussions here are worthless, and when I die, I will lose my soul, and my shell will rot in the ground, Love becomes non-existant, and feeling for others is lost. I don't see it the world's way, and I never will, if bigfoot was found, and we could watch evolution happen somehow, I would never fall in to the illusion, I am special.This message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 10-04-2005 08:41 PMThis message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 10-04-2005 08:44 PM

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empathy is non-existant as we reign terror on others

Profound thought Charlie, but may I suggest that this exact post be started somewhere more appropriate?

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AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe

http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

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So you declared that America was Mystery Babylon the Great yet YOU were one of those chosen ones that was different? LOL. I was like that too. Until I really looked at the obvious scriptures.

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I knew that I was a Hutu, but I saw our group's stupidity, and I said something about it... I was part of it, and I didn't get seperated from the group or anything, they knew I was right. I think lol.

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BTW what is new in American History? Are you seeing the nation in a whole new way?

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Well besides the obvious: Columbus commited acts of genocide on Natives. I've learned a lot about how the Revolution wasn't that radical, how although it changed history, the ideas were there, we have developed into a modern Rome. I have learned about how a lot of the Founding Fathers were in it for personal gain, but most were impassioned about helping their fellow man, Like Jefferson. He wrote letters to Madison about how a Lockean "bill of rights" was needed in our constitution, and to be applied in America. We aren't that far yet, but I need to study for a huge exam actually in 2 days... Later, and BTW, I haven't been keeping up on my emails, I'm sorry, I couldn't make it to the chat :-) Cya.

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empathy is non-existant as we reign terror on others

If you have an idea where, I would appreciate it if you moved it!

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empathy is non-existant as we reign terror on others

Lets Reframe the O.P. and resume our discussion. Admin Asgara wants any science/evolution talk to go to your other post. Any questions and chat regarding evolution versus creation, as regarding Charlies understanding about science can go to that post. This post can focus on philosophy by definition. Charlie, here is my advice:1)Talk to the people in your life--the dwellers---and those who have influenced you the most.2) Ask them what they thought about life at 17 years old. Ask them where they went to college and if they knew what they wanted to study since they were your age. When I was 17, I worked at a restaurant and became interested in restaurant management because I had a good relationship with my Boss. He was my dweller! I ended up doing nothing that I thought I would do at 17, however.

Obviously specific places will have their own way of doing things, and some incredibly technical fields... or university positions... may require a degree in an appropriate field.But my experience has been the same everywhere I have gone, and that is connections first, drive second, luck tied with the first two, and finally what education you have. And backing up what another poster has said, I have found that most nontechnical field employers look at whether you have a degree, not what it was in. Heheheh... you thought that I thought that was a good thing? I was actually condemning it. Well not so much the drive part, but the networking. Cronyism is so rampant that it is a must to get really good jobs, unless you are extremely lucky. It will open doors that should firmly be slammed shut in your face. Witness the entire Bush administration, nicely exemplified by Brown's FEMA directorship.THAT is what my experience has been. People without the right education and the right skills getting into jobs they should never be in, and moving up quickly because of those same connections in order to dominate and smother those that actually know what the hell they are doing.Since you cannot beat it, you have to join it (network damn it!), but unlike others have the personal integrity to NOT take jobs you are unqualified to handle.Not sure if you saw one of my posts to crash in another thread, but I've worked in a pretty important sci/enviro govt agency, and was totally disillusioned. We had anything but scientists running the joint and actually deriding science... openly declaring "who cares about science". From what I have read about the WMD info fiasco, and now the FEMA disaster, it sounds like things haven't changed since I left.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Reality is what is.Luck is a reality that you cannot control, but shapes or can shape your life from that moment on. That is nothing you intentionally did brought it into being.Fate is the exact same thing as luck but with a feeling that perhaps some other force intentionally brought that reality into being. The force does not necessarily have to be intelligent, such as a balancing force like karma, or it could even be your own higher spiritual force which you do not realize in your corporal form rather than another (higher) being.To be honest fate is easier to deal with, because luck can be infuriating. If its bad the whole world seems malignant and there is nothing you can do about it. If its good then it may disappear at any moment and there is no added energy for you to complete a "destiny".

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

In Message 38, Phat suggests Good thinking, Phat. Here is my comment.At age 17, I was interested in mathematics and science. I chose to study physics. I didn't much worry about future employment. I figured that there would be jobs, and that I could always go into high school teaching if I couldn't find anything else. As an undergraduate, I changed my mind and majored in mathematics. I went on to graduate school in math. I later turned myself into a self-taught computer scientist.My advice to prophex: Study an area that you find interesting. But keep in mind the need to eventually find employment, so make sure you develop enough skills to be sure that you will be employable.You have many years ahead of you. It is difficult, maybe impossible, to predict what sort of world we will have in 20 years time. Yet you are preparing yourself for that unpredictable world. Keep your opportunities open for as long as possible, for you cannot tell now which of those opportunities will be best for you in the future.As for philosophy: if you think you will enjoy that field, then take some classes in it. Don't commit yourself to majoring in philosophy until you are sure that is the best for you. That's an example of keeping opportunities open. Maybe start college with several possible majors in mind, and use your first two or three semesters to help you choose between them.

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You have many years ahead of you. It is difficult, maybe impossible, to predict what sort of world we will have in 20 years time. Yet you are preparing yourself for that unpredictable world. Keep your opportunities open for as long as possible, for you cannot tell now which of those opportunities will be best for you in the future.

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That's why everyone should get a Liberal Arts education.Sure, you can major in Philosophy, but in a Liberal Arts context, you also are learning about science, history, literature, foreign languages, economics, art, music, etc.

Before college, yes. In college, no. I have gone to both types and found that the diversity of subjects within LACs was a detraction from concentrated study in a chosen area, and forces one to pay both time and money for nibbling at areas where the best you can become is a dilletante. You will note that my suggestion to Prophex was to make sure he concetrated in at least one other area of study outside of Philosophy. Frankly I think that should go for everyone, so people have two sets of useful skills, but certainly for Philosophy students.Life should be a liberal arts education... not college where you are paying to get an education in a subject so you may be better employed.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

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Life should be a liberal arts education... not college where you are paying to get an education in a subject so you may be better employed.

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...and yet, the skills I learned in my major at college are only very vaguely, tangentially related to what I do now.And this seems to be a very common experience.Out of the 50 or so people at my workplace who want to be in this line of work (specialty food retail/restaurant) as a career, I can think of only about 5 of them who completed a course of study in Hospitality/Restaurant Management or went to Culinary school. We have former Ford engineers, a former pediatrician, a former Astrophysicist and a former professor of Spanish, a former horse trainer (me) and graduates of very diverse university programs like Russian History.I also have several friends who are not doing anything close to what they thought they would be. One friend got a terminal Masters in Physics from Northwestern, got a job teaching computer programs to businesses, went to law school, passed the bar, moved to Japan to follow a girlfriend, got a job at the University of Maryland, Okinawa teaching computer science and business ethics, then became an administrator and is now getting back into some teaching.These days, what one studies in school is quite likely not going to be what one ends up doing as a career, several times over.Concentrating mostly on just one type of study (science only, or English only, or music only) would seem to be a risky way to prepare for the current economy.I definitely find that I draw upon many of the diverse subjects I studied in college in my current career.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 10-06-2005 09:10 AM

I agree, but that has nothing to do with what one should do in college. A dabbling in diverse subjects does not really prepare you for work in those other subjects.Ironically the above argument you make is actually an argument against college education being useful at all. Generally people will end up getting into jobs and learning what they need to there, or having learned it on their own.Like I said, I had a LA education, and I went on to nonLA colleges and meeting nonLA graduates. I have not met anyone better prepared for their eventual employment because they spent extra money and time taking a few classes outside their main subject. I have also seen people do better unhampered by side requirements. Honestly, did you need them? Were they really worth the cost to you? And in general are you the type of person to have learned about the subjects on your own?I actually believe there is no excuse for people in this day and age not to be "rennaissance men". People can and really should be pursuing many different interests, broadening their minds and skills. But I saw little value in this from a liberal arts college.I do think however that people should choose at least a major and minor, or a double major in college. Get two sets of skills. More than that is just dicking around.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)