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Author Topic:   Is Christianity so weak that it has to be validated?
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6497 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 31 of 45 (52104)
08-25-2003 4:40 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by joshua221
08-22-2003 5:43 PM


I see, your tactic is to claim that anybody that asks you to support your claims with evidence is insulting you and you will not respond? As to your evidence...what is the evidence that it is the word of god?
The testable hypothesis and supporting evidence would be nice...looking forward.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by joshua221, posted 08-22-2003 5:43 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
Bailey
Member (Idle past 4392 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 32 of 45 (52232)
08-25-2003 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by DC85
08-24-2003 7:23 PM


Hi DC,
If you really want to how someone was touched by the "Holy Spirit", you might consider going to a church and sincerely asking somebody to tell you about their experience (straight from the horses mouth). Maybe you have a family member who "believes" who you could ask.
Witnessing in a debate forum seems ridiculous.
Also, the majority of people I've ever spoken with about their "Holy Spirit" encounter agreeably "asked the Holy Spirit into their hearts". Have you ever done this?
and you can't say Because you had faith Because thats the reason you have faith. Please explain this to me
What came first the chicken or the egg.........
------------------
"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by DC85, posted 08-24-2003 7:23 PM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by nator, posted 08-25-2003 10:46 PM Bailey has not replied
 Message 40 by DC85, posted 08-28-2003 10:52 PM Bailey has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 33 of 45 (52239)
08-25-2003 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Bailey
08-25-2003 9:30 PM


quote:
Also, the majority of people I've ever spoken with about their "Holy Spirit" encounter agreeably "asked the Holy Spirit into their hearts". Have you ever done this?
But what about the people who as Allah into their hearts, or Ganesh, or the Goddess? What about the people who have just as powerful a spiritual experience but just not a Christian one?
How does an outside observer know which person to believe when all any of them have is a personal anecdote and nothing more?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Bailey, posted 08-25-2003 9:30 PM Bailey has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Quetzal, posted 08-26-2003 7:00 AM nator has replied

  
Bailey
Member (Idle past 4392 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 34 of 45 (52248)
08-25-2003 11:43 PM


But what about the people who as Allah into their hearts, or Ganesh, or the Goddess? What about the people who have just as powerful a spiritual experience but just not a Christian one?
So, what about the people who have asked Allah, Christ, RA or any entity into their hearts. If they choose to do so, it is their decision and if they have a life transforming spiritual encounter/experience it is not your(our) place to judge them... categorically or as individuals.
Moreover, the original post depicted DC85 asking prophecyexclaimed
how where you touched by the Holy spirit? I would really like to know. how come I haven't? and you can't say Because you had faith Because thats the reason you have faith. Please explain this to me...
You have my apologies but, in the spirit of defence, when DC85 made reference to the Holt spirit one could only assume he was referring to the same Holy Spirit occuring over and over again in the Judeo-Christian texts(i.e. the holy trinity); being as he asked prophecyexclaimed.
------------------
"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."

Replies to this message:
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Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5894 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 35 of 45 (52289)
08-26-2003 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by nator
08-25-2003 10:46 PM


Bad Schraf
Tsk tsk. prophecyexclaimed has stated openly, unequivocally, and explicitly that he is merely here to Witness. He isn't here to debate or discuss. Remember that "witnessing" is something especially prevalent among a small minority of millenial Christian Reconstructionist neo-Protestant cults (ya know, the ones who are always burbling on about the imminence of the Rapture, etc), and that it is utterly verbotten for them to question another's Witness. It...simply...isn't...done. Altho' I agree with weary's question as to the utility of so doing on a discussion board, you should be ashamed of yourself for forgetting this key element of their whole experience.
The only thing you can do with people of that ilk is to say, "Yes. Thank you very much. That was very, erm, informative." Then back away from them carefully - sort of like what you'd do with a potentially unstable explosive device. What you NEVER do is question the fundamental premise of the Witness, or worse, question the validity or reality of the experience.
Now, don't you feel just the teensiest bit contrite, here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by nator, posted 08-25-2003 10:46 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by nator, posted 08-26-2003 11:54 AM Quetzal has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 36 of 45 (52340)
08-26-2003 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Bailey
08-25-2003 11:43 PM


quote:
So, what about the people who have asked Allah, Christ, RA or any entity into their hearts. If they choose to do so, it is their decision and if they have a life transforming spiritual encounter/experience it is not your(our) place to judge them... categorically or as individuals.
Where do you get that I was judging anyone?
I was using the non-exclusivity of the Christian life-altering spiritual experience as a means to illustrate the problem of how one can tell which religion is the right one.
I mean, they ALL are having these powerful experiences, and most of these religions, particularly Christianity, claim to be the One True Faith(TM).
They can't ALL be right, but if they all can produce these powerful experiences in people, then it becomes impossible to figure out which one is correct. Stalemate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Bailey, posted 08-25-2003 11:43 PM Bailey has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 37 of 45 (52341)
08-26-2003 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Quetzal
08-26-2003 7:00 AM


Re: Bad Schraf
quote:
Now, don't you feel just the teensiest bit contrite, here?
Nope.
LOL!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Quetzal, posted 08-26-2003 7:00 AM Quetzal has not replied

  
Bailey
Member (Idle past 4392 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 38 of 45 (52403)
08-26-2003 8:56 PM


Where do you get that I was judging anyone?
I was using the non-exclusivity of the Christian life-altering spiritual experience as a means to illustrate the problem of how one can tell which religion is the right one.
I mean, they ALL are having these powerful experiences, and most of these religions, particularly Christianity, claim to be the One True Faith(TM).
Apologies...appeared, in context, as the witness for Jesus was being set apart from the bunch. Often if one has been set apart from another, a particular decision(judgement) has been made.
They can't ALL be right, but if they all can produce these powerful experiences in people, then it becomes impossible to figure out which one is correct. Stalemate.
Your left with:
  • some/all are genuine
  • some/all are bogus
  • one is genuine,some/most are bogus
It's a shot in the dark once faith is removed from the picture, whether Atheist or Catholic or regardless of ones preference or belief.
poke & hope
Love,
weary
------------------
"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."

  
Bailey
Member (Idle past 4392 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 39 of 45 (52766)
08-28-2003 9:52 PM


In summary, Christianity is not quite so weak that it needs to be validated.
------------------
love,
weary
"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."

  
DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 40 of 45 (52774)
08-28-2003 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Bailey
08-25-2003 9:30 PM


What came first the chicken or the egg?
This is an Easy one! The Egg Because the creature that layed the first True Chicken wasn't a Chicken
Hi DC,
If you really want to how someone was touched by the "Holy Spirit", you might consider going to a church and sincerely asking somebody to tell you about their experience (straight from the horses mouth). Maybe you have a family member who "believes" who you could ask.
Witnessing in a debate forum seems ridiculous.
Also, the majority of people I've ever spoken with about their "Holy Spirit" encounter agreeably "asked the Holy Spirit into their hearts". Have you ever done this?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA My friend you seem to think all atheist/agnostics have Never been Deep in Faith in God in their lives. You need to get rid of this idea in your Head. I was raised Catholic and had 100% faith in God. I have asked(back then) for the Holy Spirit to come into my heart. But he didn't want to I guess I am ugly or something. Or he missed me.. oh well...
Have you ever literally looked at the Bible? its a Joke to me in major areas. things don't make sense alot of it seems to tell me of an Evil a sadistic God... if you Look you can find it to. However I have never once said there isn't a God I just think IF there is we Know nothing(0%) about it (that again is if)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Bailey, posted 08-25-2003 9:30 PM Bailey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Bailey, posted 08-28-2003 11:22 PM DC85 has replied

  
Bailey
Member (Idle past 4392 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 41 of 45 (52783)
08-28-2003 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by DC85
08-28-2003 10:52 PM


DC85 writes:
Have you ever literally looked at the Bible? its a Joke to me in major areas. things don't make sense alot of it seems to tell me of an Evil a sadistic God... if you Look you can find it to. However I have never once said there isn't a God I just think IF there is we Know nothing(0%) about it (that again is if)
I see a glimmer of hope...er, I mean open mindedness.
Chances are, if there is a God, it's one of the three most popular.
------------------
love,
weary
"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by DC85, posted 08-28-2003 10:52 PM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by DC85, posted 08-28-2003 11:57 PM Bailey has not replied
 Message 43 by MrHambre, posted 08-29-2003 3:29 PM Bailey has replied

  
DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 42 of 45 (52787)
08-28-2003 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Bailey
08-28-2003 11:22 PM


I see a glimmer of hope...er, I mean open mindedness.
Chances are, if there is a God, it's one of the three most popular.
yeah its called an Agnostic not all Evolutionist are Atheist. for your Information all Evolutionists(well most) are open minded thats why they are Evolutionist. Very Few of us are Raised into it.
so I should just pick one and hope I picked the right one? the one that isn't going to damn or condem me? how do I know which it is? how come they don't show them selves? Am I not good enough for them? you still haven't answered me why hasn't the Holy spirit touched me?
[This message has been edited by DC85, 08-28-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Bailey, posted 08-28-2003 11:22 PM Bailey has not replied

  
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1415 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 43 of 45 (52874)
08-29-2003 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Bailey
08-28-2003 11:22 PM


quote:
Chances are, if there is a God, it's one of the three most popular.
I think in the future, you should abide by Forum guidelines and attribute quotes from others. This is lifted directly from Hans Kung's 1992 draft for the Parliament of the World's Religions of a Declaration Toward a Global Ethic.
I'm surprised no one caught it before I did.
------------------
I would not let the chickens cross the antidote road because I was already hospitlized for trying to say this!-Brad McFall

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Bailey, posted 08-28-2003 11:22 PM Bailey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Bailey, posted 08-29-2003 5:33 PM MrHambre has not replied

  
Bailey
Member (Idle past 4392 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 44 of 45 (52888)
08-29-2003 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by MrHambre
08-29-2003 3:29 PM


I'm surprised no one caught it before he did
MrHambre writes:
I think in the future, you should abide by Forum guidelines and attribute quotes from others. This is lifted directly from Hans Kung's 1992 draft for the Parliament of the World's Religions of a Declaration Toward a Global Ethic.
  • Do you have any evidence to support this assertion?
    MrHambre - EvC, 08-29-2003 02:10 PM
Imagine that...I mean, what are the chances of 14 different commonly used words being phrased twice in exactly the same sentence structure. To convey a similar message, at that. It is nearly impossible. Seriously, what is the probability of that happening even once in appr. 4015 days on a planet with only 6,314,488,938 people.I'm sorry,it's just not realistic, that's allI'm tryin' to......
Like the ol' sayin' goes, weary minds think alike.........no offence Hans Kung
------------------
love,
weary
"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by MrHambre, posted 08-29-2003 3:29 PM MrHambre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by DC85, posted 08-29-2003 6:20 PM Bailey has not replied

  
DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 45 of 45 (52898)
08-29-2003 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Bailey
08-29-2003 5:33 PM


Re: I'm surprised no one caught it before he did
think you may have just heard it someplace before???? anyway please answer my questions

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Bailey, posted 08-29-2003 5:33 PM Bailey has not replied

  
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