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Author | Topic: Is man inherently good or inherently evil? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
Although similarities between animals like DNA (as schraf said) exist, an unreasonable conclusion is humans are also animals. If you haven't realized the differences aside from physicalities, then check them out.
"Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you." Ephesians 5:14
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
quote: Yes, but the original statement was wrong, and kind of funny.
quote: So what? Would this not be a decent claim to add to the differences? What eggactly are you trying to say?
quote: Um, check out the rrhain reply.
quote: Got me there, intangible, subjective... "Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you." Ephesians 5:14
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
Scratch that, I guess calling humans animals is ok... But I personnally believe that we are so so much different. Schraf made me come to this realization, thanks. The subjectivity thing.
"Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you." Ephesians 5:14
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
dpardo responds to me:
quote: Is salvation by faith or works? Paul says faith. Peter says works. Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
prophex responds to me:
quote:quote: When someone claims to be a follower of a specific religion, to be unaware of the well-documented contradictions of its primary piece of literature is a bit...well...shocking. It would be akin to someone who claims to be a native speaker of English not knowing that the verb "to be" is an irregular verb.
quote: That's not what Paul says. You can live a life of sin but if you repent and turn to god at the last minute, you're saved. What gets you into heave, according to Paul, is what you believe and not what you do. Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
prophex avoids my question:
quote: Then where do they fit? Plantae? Fungi? Protista? Monera? Are you claiming humans are minerals? If humans aren't animals, what are they?
quote: Um, did you ever pause to think that I have checked them out? Why do you think I keep asking you if humans aren't animals, then what are they? They're obviously not minerals, so they're some form of life. Well, there are only five Kingdoms of life: Animalia, Plantae, Fungi, Protista, and Monera. Are you saying humans are some kind of plant? Fungus? Single-celled organism? If humans aren't animals, what are they? Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Rrhain writes:
I found some commentary on this topic. Is salvation by faith or works? Paul says faith. Peter says works.Jandy Stone writes: If the Bible is viewed from a dispensational perspective, it makes better sense. Although a true split would not occur for several centuries, there were many differences of opinion between the church in the West (Rome) and the church in the East (Turkey) over the status of many letters. This helps to create the confusion which seems to exist in the history of the Canon. Are you questioning the differences in Paul & Peter's methods? Or calling? Because Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles, as he did throughout Acts in Asia Minor, Macedonia, and Italy. He still preached to the Jews as well, always going to the synogogue first, but his primary mission was to Gentiles. Peter, I think, was based more in the Jerusalem area.Peter had trouble, at times, overcoming his Judaistic tendencies, as evidenced by the passage in Galatians where Paul mentions having to rebuke Peter for snubbing Gentiles when the Judaisers were present. Notice also the passage in Acts where Peter is treated to the vision of the unclean animals, telling him that the ceremonial differences between Jews and Gentiles were being erased by God. Here is a commentary from Fr Tommy Lane, LSS, DD, a priest of the Diocese of Cloyne, (Co. Cork) Ireland Fr Lane writes:
So what is my point?? My point is that all of the Bible is written for us (Gentile Believers or Jewish Believers) Yet all of the Bible is not written to everyone. Some parts were written to Jews and some parts were written to Gentiles. Paul and Peter have many more similarities than differences, and the differences are because Paul was called to preach to non Jewish Gentiles. Peter, a Jew, still clung to the old system. He thought that to be a believer properly, one must become Jewish first..(works) Paul said that whosoever believes has a way in...(Grace) We remember today Saints Peter and Paul who guided the early church just after the time of Jesus. Both died as martyrs for the faith in Rome, in the early 60’s, just thirty years after the death of Jesus. Peter was crucified upside down in the courtyard just to the left of St Peter’s Basilica (in the courtyard behind the arch where the Swiss Guards stand on duty) and Paul was beheaded in a place between Rome and the sea, now called Tre Fontane (Italian for three fountains after the legend that the three springs in the spot mark the three places where Paul’s head bounced after being beheaded). Peter was buried in the nearest cemetery which was on top of Vatican Hill and St Peter's Basilica was later built on top of Peter's tomb, the main altar being directly on top of his tomb. Paul was also buried in the nearest cemetery and the Basilica of St Paul's outside the Walls was later build on top of his tomb, the main altar being directly on top of his tomb.Each of these two saints is important for different reasons. Peter is important because he was the first Pope and kept the church united which was growing very rapidly in the years following Pentecost. In the first years after Pentecost it was Jews who accepted Jesus as the Saviour and so the early church was a very Jewish church. But as time went on Paul began to preach also to non-Jews, the Gentiles as they were called. All of us are Gentiles and . His preaching was very successful and he brought huge numbers of non-Jews into the church, so much so that the number of Jews in the church was greatly outnumbered by non-Jews. It is because of Paul that we are now in the Church. So both Peter and Paul had very important tasks in the early church, Peter maintaining the unity in the church which during his lifetime had already spread throughout the middle East and Europe, and Paul who taught the Jews that Jesus is the fulfillment of their Old Testament hopes and taught the non-Jews that Jesus is the Saviour. Whenever you see statues of Peter and Paul, usually Peter is holding a key, symbolizing his duty as head of the church, and Paul is holding the Bible, symbolizing his preaching. This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-16-2004 02:57 AM
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 505 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
Rrhain writes:
I've been waiting for him to answer this very straight foward question, too. Unfortunately, he's been avoiding it for the last two pages, and I doubt that he's going to step out of his bubble and answer the damn question in a straight forward manner anytime soon. It is this kind of childish attitude that have made me hesitant to engage in a dialogue with him. If humans aren't animals, what are they? The Laminator We are the bog. Resistance is voltage over current.
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!
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dpardo Inactive Member |
Rrhain writes: "Is salvation by faith or works? Paul says faith. Peter says works." Salvation is by faith. Can you please post the verse(s) that you believe supports what you say about Peter?
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 762 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Read Rrhain's post #39, dpardo. He quoted it there.
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dpardo Inactive Member |
Coragyps writes: "Read Rrhain's post #39, dpardo. He quoted it there." I am going to assume you are referring to 1Peter 1:17, if this is not correct, please correct me. 1Peter 1:17 says:
"And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear" Peter is not referring to salvation in this passage. He is referring to God's impartiality towards people with regard to their status or position.
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Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1267 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
quote: It's a balance of both. Why can't it be both? -porcelain
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Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1267 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
The concept of good and evil is very much human. This concept of good and evil which people established is awesome. I think it is right to say like a few have said here already, man is neither good or evil man is just man.
I have another philosophical question: Is the concept of good and evil learned or was it born in you? -porcelain
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
porcelain writes: I would say that the original awareness of evil as a concept of freedom from authority I have another philosophical question:Is the concept of good and evil learned or was it born in you?was inborn.(Original Sin) It is now a part of human nature. We learn how to be deceitful and dishonest, however. This only happens to us if we reject that still small voice within us. I also think that Spiritual impartation is born in someone, and that we are without excuse, even if we claim to be atheists. This is just my opinion, however. There is both Original (inborn) sin, and Original salvation through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was the solution before sin even became the problem. Jesus was "In the beginning" and through Him all things were created. God provided us with a solution before we even had any problems! What a Creator! I love Him! This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-18-2004 04:03 PM
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Phatboy responds to me:
quote: Incorrect. Ask a Judaism what the sin of Sodom was and see if sexuality ever gets mentioned. Compare this with Christianity and then try to explain the difference. The Old Testament was written by Jews for Jews. The Christians came along, having come out of Judaism, and stole the work, completely ignored the intent of the narrative, and tried to shoehorn in their Messiah into the "prophecies," completely ignoring the fact that Jesus didn't fulfill them. This "Judeo-Christian" attitude is nothing more than a mythical figment created by the Eisenhower administration in an attempt to solidify religious support for his administration in the aftermath of World War II.
quote: Yeah...Old Testament and New Testament. The problem is that the New Testament seems to think that the Old Testament was written with Jesus in mind. And it wasn't.
quote: Irrelevant. They differ on the most important point: How does one achieve salvation? When one person tells you to be nice or your won't go to heaven and the other says you are nice because you're going to heaven, that's a tremendous difference. Despite the fact that both of them are extolling the niceties of being nice (oy!) they have opposing views of the point of it all.
quote: Considering that Jesus said that not one jot, not one tittle of the Law would be changed until all be fulfilled, which one do you think Jesus would have gone with? Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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