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Author | Topic: Police Shootings | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
LamarkNewAge Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 2236 Joined: |
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From 1854 to 2003, no white got the death penalty for killing a black in Texas. Up until 2016 (and possibly ever), no white ever got the death penalty for killing a black, in Florida. No whites got executed for killing blacks in Alabama from 1913-2016 in Alabama. The Anomaly of Dylann Roof | The Marshall Project 2 This lady was on record (electronic messages to a friend) supporting a person who trained his dog to have a certain (unfriendly and alert) reaction to blacks. She essentially described herself as "racist" (the dog was said to be "racist"). THIS LADY IS A POLICE OFFICER! 3 This lady said, in electronic communication, she shoots "fast" so she dies "last". She was describing her police conduct. (She must shoot fast when in the middle of an on-duty policing situation, if she shot a harmless and unarmed man point blank in the chest, while not in the heat of a job-related situation) SOLUTIONS? The most simple solution to the problem of racist cops shooting blacks is to only hire black officers IN THE FUTURE. One can grandfather clause existing white police-officers. But future white officers should be disqualified. The issue of the "I was scared" problem is more difficult to pin down. We can easily see what an awful officer this lady was, NOW, but her fellow officers sure did fail to notice what they probably should have. MY THOUGHTS AND COMMENTS: A 10 year sentence for murder is odd in a state like Texas, but that was apparently was a majority-black jury decision. This "murder" charge and conviction really was a no-brainer. Good job, Dallas, on that part. What to do about racist police officers? I think there really needs to be some radical solutions, there. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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LamarkNewAge Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 2236 Joined: |
quote: Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member
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I'm leaning that way myself. Why does a cop need a gun for issuing a speeding ticket. If you walk up and the driver pulls a gun then turn around, run to your car, lock the door. Perhaps the police officer could have a gun in the car that can be used when someone keeps shooting at them when they are in the car. If the suspect speeds away, call it in and get the special units to chase them down. At first I thought you were trolling, but I'm starting to lean towards a genuine delusion on your part. You live in a land of make believe with this kind of naivet. Cops don't need guns to issue traffic tickets, as it were. But traffic stops are among the most dangerous instances where violence is leveled against them. I'm sure in your mind you believe cops are ninjas and can either dodge or outrun bullets, but they can't. Nobody can. Not even a ninja, a Navy Seal, the fastest or most agile human that has ever lived, nor even the fastest animal that has ever lived can do that. Even if they could, police aren't equipped with armored vehicles that withstand even a .22 round, let alone a larger caliber round. But even if they could, do these magical, specialized units have godlike, omnipresent abilities where they can just kind of be everywhere simultaneously at the exact moment they're needed most? Because that's more or less how you've imagined this perfect, foolproof plan in your mind when it is in reality it so far removed from practicability that its laughable. By the way SWAT officers only show up an hour after patrol officers (with guns) have contained a scene where there is 1. subject(s) that are armed and 2. are barricaded. If that wasn't enough, you then said police could have guns in their vehicle, which everyone will now know to be the precedent... just wait for the cop to get up to your vehicle so that (s)he is now away from their weapon. A weapon that is not readily accessible is no weapon at all. Cops don't need guns to issue citations, they need guns to be able to adequately defend themselves in instances where someone chooses to try to kill them or someone else. Those instances can literally happen at any given time. Do British police officers need a baton to write traffic citations? Or do they carry them to defend themselves against aggressors? Maybe they should leave them in the car because they don't need them during traffic stops. Furthermore, police officers handle a very wide variety of calls. You associate police with doing little else than running traffic because that's what you happen to see, but in reality they handle a diverse and wide array of calls for service that you don't see... and perhaps if you did see what they actually do from day to day you might have a more forgiving appreciation for why standard practices are standard.
Right now, an officer will have his hand on the gun, ready to draw and fire at the slightest provocation, just for a speeding ticket. That makes no sense. If it makes no sense, its because your nonsensical hypotheticals don't make sense. Name a single time where a police officer gunned down someone for speeding. Never happened. Here's how it actually goes: Officer initiates a traffic stop after having observed a traffic infraction -- driver or some passenger gets pissed off and makes furtive or overt movements that (s)he is trying to kill the officer. Officer responds to what has been presented to them. That's extremely disingenuous and is not the same as getting shot for speeding. You're taking the reason for the stop as being the same as the reason for an officer involved shooting. So, I would agree that it makes no sense... because you have no sense. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
From 1854 to 2003, no white got the death penalty for killing a black in Texas. Up until 2016 (and possibly ever), no white ever got the death penalty for killing a black, in Florida. No whites got executed for killing blacks in Alabama from 1913-2016 in Alabama. Nobody gets a death sentence for murder... the only time they're eligible for the death penalty is for a Capital murder.
The most simple solution to the problem of racist cops shooting blacks is to only hire black officers IN THE FUTURE. One can grandfather clause existing white police-officers. But future white officers should be disqualified. So your solution to racism is by adding more racism?
A 10 year sentence for murder is odd in a state like Texas, but that was apparently was a majority-black jury decision. 5-99 is what is lawfully proscribed in Texas for this level of offense. I think 25 years would have been more appropriate than 10. No wonder the black residents of Dallas' joy over a conviction was short-lived once they heard 10 years.
What to do about racist police officers? I think there really needs to be some radical solutions, there. Good departments institute training that uncovers both explicit and implicit biases, which everyone is susceptible to on some level. Lets take your own as a fine example. Your assumption is that White + Police = Racist. In fact, so much so that you would actually disqualify white people from becoming police officers on the sole basis of their race. If Amber Guyger had shot a white person in their own home, the fact that she is a police officer would have garnered some attention. It remains to be seen whether it would have garnered as much attention given the dynamic of white officer and innocent black resident. Seems like you're implying that she was only scared enough to shoot a black guy but wouldn't have been scared enough to shoot a white guy. You've deduced this based on some racist text messages. Was Amber Guyger a racist? Quite possibly. Was Botham Jean killed solely on account of his race? Maybe? I think the bigger problem is that somebody with Guyger's mentality should have never been able to be a police officer. But my even bigger problem is your assertion that if you're white and if you're a police officer that it 100% certifies you as a racist... so much so that it should disqualify you from the profession. That is both remarkable and ironic."Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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LamarkNewAge Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 2236 Joined: |
quote: But that is not true. In Florida (a state with a population bigger than New York state), first degree murder does bring the death penalty. But, no white has ever gotten the death penalty in the blood-hungry state of Florida IF THE VICTIM WAS BLACK. This is a diverse state with a population larger than most countries. Lots of white on white murders in Florida. Lots of black on black murders in Florida. Lots of black on white murders in Florida. Lots of white on black murders there. Lots of death sentences in Florida. It just so happens that Florida has never executed a white person for killing a black. Why? (We know why, and the attitudes of Florida aren't too different from the rest of the country)
quote: There has been a problem in the larger "white community" at-large. This "problem" has caused too many black humans to loose their lives. This problem has been noticed (very well-noted) in the black community. This problem is a cancer upon the body of the nation. This problem has caused many tens of millions to loose confidence in the larger population in the United States of America. There is a problem with WHITE RACISM (and racial bias against black humans). White racism (in all of its shades) is real. It is a major problem. Major problems require major solutions. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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LamarkNewAge Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 2236 Joined: |
Killings of Black Men by Whites are Far More Likely to be Ruled Justifiable | The Marshall Project
quote: This was about a third of the text article. There are a lot of graphics to show the data from different cities. Very informative. It is a disturbing reality
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Today Atatiana Jefferson, 28, was shot and killed in her bedroom by a Fort Worth police officer conducting a wellness check. The officer fired through the window after calling out, Put your hands up. Show me your hands. He said he perceived a threat. He’s been placed on administrative leave.
Of course Ms. Jefferson was unarmed. She wasn’t even aware the police were outside or that anyone had called in a wellness check. Only to a criminal fleeing police would it be obvious that the police are shouting orders at you. To someone in their bedroom the sudden and unexpected shouted words would most likely be unintelligible. This is actually two tragedies. Ms. Jefferson is dead, and the officer will likely face trial and be found guilty of manslaughter and possibly murder. Source: Fort Worth Officer Fatally Shot Woman Inside Her Home, Police Say Percy Edited by Percy, : Correct name of decedent, correct link.
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
There's an update on the killing of Atatiana Jefferson, described in the previous message. The officer involved in the killing, Aaron Dean, has resigned from the Fort Worth Police Department and been charged with murder. This is far faster than anyone could ever have imagined, but Fort Worth has suffered through several similar incidents over the past year. Usually there's the internal police investigation, then the scuffle over whether to make public body cam footage and other evidence, then the state attorney general investigates whether charges are warranted, and all this takes months. But not this time. In less than a week Dean has resigned the force and been charged with murder.
I'm sure people are tired of me saying this, but wellness checks do not require guns. And for too many police (not all or even most, but too many), a gun is the solution of first resort whenever someone has the audacity to not follow orders, in this case within 3 seconds, said orders shouted unexpectedly through a window. Atatiana was playing a video game with her 8-year old nephew at the time. Source: Fort Worth officer who fatally shot woman in her home has been charged with murder, police say --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Robert "Chip" Olsen, who is white, was yesterday acquitted of shooting and killing Anthony Hill, who was black and naked and unarmed. The jury was divided along racial lines. They did convict Olsen of aggravated assault and lying about the shooting. Sentencing is November 1. Olsen potentially faces decades in prison.
Anthony Hill, an Afghanistan veteran, suffered from bipolar disorder and PTSD. On the afternoon of March 9, 2015, he suffered a mental health crisis at his apartment complex. The police were contacted by maintenance workers. The police emerged from their cruiser with guns drawn. Within six or seven seconds Hill was dead. Source: Cop cleared of murder, convicted of aggravated assault and lying, after shooting unarmed, naked man --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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There's another update on the killing of Atatiana Jefferson. Rather than knocking on the front door and calling out, "Anyone home?", officer Aaron Dean chose to circumnavigate the house secretly. His body cam footage reveals him walking around the house, peering in windows, and whispering to his partner. Atatiana's 8-year old nephew has been interviewed, and according to him his aunt heard noises outside the house, took a handgun, and pointed it at the window. It was at that point that officer Dean fired.
Some reports call this a training problem, that officers should be trained to minimize the possibility of surprise and sudden reaction, that they should place themselves in the mind of the other person to understand how they'll react. But other reports said that Dean had had this training, and that he chose a poor course anyway. Let's look at this statistically. There are more than a million cops with guns out there, but for simplicity let's just call it an even million. Let's say each cop works a beat 200 days a year, so that's a total of 200 million cop work days a year. Let's say that the odds that a cop makes a poor decision resulting in an innocent civilian's death during the course of a work day is 0.00001%. That's 20 unnecessary civilian deaths a year. The actual number is somewhat larger than that, but it tells us that the 0.00001% error rate is pretty much in the ballpark. No amount of training is ever going to reduce the error rate per day below something as minuscule as 0.00001%. Police should not have guns, and people who have guns should not be conducting wellness checks. --Percy
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
16 year old executed for defying authority. This just continues to show brown and black people that they need to do everything they can to evade police, because they will continue to be shot and killed for spurious and specious reasons.
Video shows officer shooting fleeing Fresno teen in the back of the head | California | The Guardian quote: Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
16 year old executed for defying authority. This just continues to show brown and black people that they need to do everything they can to evade police, because they will continue to be shot and killed for spurious and specious reasons. If you're going to make a declaration as poignant as police officers everywhere target "brown and black people," then you should probably have all of the facts. Fact 1: The decedent was a murder suspect whom they have been looking for extensively. Fact 2: They located the subject and initiated a felony traffic stop. The suspect first complied and when he was within about two feet from a cop he then decides it would be an awesome time to run away. Fact 3: The fleeing murder suspect is seen reaching towards his waistband numerous times. Fact 4: The fleeing murder suspect who's reaching in his waistband jumps a fence.... of a preschool... and is now heading straight for it. Fact 5: Police officer takes a single shot that strikes the suspect in the back of the head, killing him. Reviews of the officer's action claim that the shooting is justified. My own take away is that if I was that officer, I almost certainly would not have taken that shot... I don't think anyone would argue the fact that it doesn't look good. The question is what is lawful and was it the most prudent way to handle it? In terms of the legality, it was lawful. Because of the facts outlined (facts that were so curiously omitted when describing the execution of brown and black people everywhere) qualifies the event as a fleeing felon. If the officer can articulate that the general public is in danger of a known and dangerous felon, shooting them is permissive under such circumstances. Would I have pulled the trigger at the instance that officer did? No, I wouldn't have. Is it legal? Yes it is. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7
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I wasn't going to even respond as you continue your practice of being a dishonest debater and misrepresent what people actually say. That you actually post what I wrote before you misrepresent it makes it more stunning.
make a declaration as poignant as police officers everywhere target "brown and black people,"
I never said that. You know I did not.I said me writes:
This is something much different, but in your alt right world view it seems to be the same thing. It is not.
This just continues to show brown and black people that they need to do everything they can to evade police, because they will continue to be shot and killed for spurious and specious reasons. Fact 1: The decedent was a murder suspect whom they have been looking for extensively.
Not sure where you got this from. He was wanted for questioning about a murder, but I do not see anywhere that he was a "murder suspect". That doesnt matter anyway. No one is allowed to summarily execute someone because they are a murder subject. Not sure what this fact was supposed to prove?
Fact 2: They located the subject and initiated a felony traffic stop. The suspect first complied and when he was within about two feet from a cop he then decides it would be an awesome time to run away.
Running from a cop is not a capital offense. Again not sure what you think this shows or how it exonerates the cop?
Fact 3: The fleeing murder suspect is seen reaching towards his waistband numerous times.
Not sure why this is a capital offense. If a cop pulls a car over and a suspect starts reaching into his jacket, should they be shot? That seems to be what you are advocating. Please tell me why that would be different. There is no sense addressing the other facts. Just more of the same.
(facts that were so curiously omitted when describing the execution of brown and black people everywhere)
Again you misrepresent what I actually posted. These facts were in the article I linked to. There was no omission. If I was trying to hide those facts I would not have linked to the article. Not sure why you think this is a big gotcha. None of those facts change the argument I made. Also, again you are misrepresenting my argument. I never made any comment about black and brown people being executed everywhere. If all you have is strawman arguments maybe you should consider someplace else to hangout online.
Is it legal? Yes it is.
I don't think I posted anything about legality. How about you try to address what I posted and not strawman arguments.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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This displays little effort at responding to what was actually said (e.g., Theodoric didn't say that police officers everywhere target brown and black people) , or at getting the facts straight (e.g., Isiah Murrietta-Golding was not a murder suspect), or at offering relevant arguments (running away is not a capital offense). Most of it is misrepresentation and misdirection.
Hyroglyphx writes: In terms of the legality, it was lawful. Isiah was running away while trying to hold his pants up. It was murder. The police know they escape being held responsible by saying they felt threatened, so that's what they always say. It's time to end this charade. How much do you think will be paid out this time? I'm thinking around $10 million. Here are updates on some of the other murders reported in this thread:
--Percy
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
I wasn't going to even respond as you continue your practice of being a dishonest debater and misrepresent what people actually say. That you actually post what I wrote before you misrepresent it makes it more stunning. I aim to please. I'm glad I was able to exceed your expectations.
This just continues to show brown and black people that they need to do everything they can to evade police, because they will continue to be shot and killed for spurious and specious reasons. Thank you for clarifying exactly what I said -- that you are under the fucktarded belief that police officers intentionally and savagely execute brown and black people for the sake of their brownness and blackness.
Not sure where you got this from. He was wanted for questioning about a murder, but I do not see anywhere that he was a "murder suspect". That doesnt matter anyway. No one is allowed to summarily execute someone because they are a murder subject. Not sure what this fact was supposed to prove? Facts taken in conjunction matter.... which is why I outlined them step by step, so that when conjoined it paints the clearest picture possible. You just didn't know any of those facts because you were too busy jacking off to a liberal rag that mangled the facts to know any different. So what you're left with is more misguided notions about how and why he died.
Running from a cop is not a capital offense. Again not sure what you think this shows or how it exonerates the cop? That's right, running away from the cops alone is not a capital offense. However, facts conjoined together change the dynamic: Being wanted for murder, while grabbing your waistband, while fleeing from police, while jumping the fence to a preschool constitutes the fleeing felon defense.
Not sure why this is a capital offense. If a cop pulls a car over and a suspect starts reaching into his jacket, should they be shot? That seems to be what you are advocating. Please tell me why that would be different. There is no sense addressing the other facts. Just more of the same. They should have a gun pulled on them at the very least. And if you don't know why, there's about a hundred videos online that explains why.
Again you misrepresent what I actually posted. These facts were in the article I linked to. There was no omission. If I was trying to hide those facts I would not have linked to the article. Not sure why you think this is a big gotcha. None of those facts change the argument I made. Also, again you are misrepresenting my argument. I never made any comment about black and brown people being executed everywhere. If all you have is strawman arguments maybe you should consider someplace else to hangout online. Have the balls to at least back up your bullshit. You made the assertion that this kid was shot because he was brown. You painted the bleakest picture possible without offering any context. You dishonestly offered: 16 year old, brown, shot in the back while running away. I'm sorry, what else is left to deduce? You opened the door, all I did was walk in.
I don't think I posted anything about legality. How about you try to address what I posted and not strawman arguments. Then why post it at all? Its done. It was investigated and cleared. You obviously are under the belief that the pretense was premeditated murder of a brown kid. So defend it. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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