We youth at EvC are in Moral Decline

I don't really have something that would stand as a formal definition. I mean drinking enough alcohol that your behaviour, reactions, etc. are noticably altered.[This message has been edited by Mr Jack, 08-13-2003]

Mr Jack responds to me:

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I mean drinking enough alcohol that your behaviour, reactions, etc. are noticably altered.

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And what makes you think that doesn't happen after a single drink? Unless you nurse that single one for the entire night....Like I said, I will probably have a much stricter version than you.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Did they say how much? Health-wise drinkers have advantages over non-drinkers in most areas as long as it's one or two drinks (12 oz. beer, 4 oz. wine, or l oz. liquor) a day. They do worse if they drink more.I'm curious if that applies in the non-health area, too.Edit: Well, shoot, Mr. Jack had already answered this. I think I've heard mild drinkers (as described above) are better educated and eat better, too.2nd edit: And what does Mr. Jack mean by his symbols? Is that 2000 British pounds of alcohol per year? Is it 2000 liters? Six liters or six pounds worth of alcohol a day both seem a bit more than moderate. I suspect I can't read his language there.[This message has been edited by truthlover, 08-13-2003][This message has been edited by truthlover, 08-13-2003]

He's talking about the higher salaries that drinkers make, i.e an extra two thousand pounds per year. (Pounds being the British monetary unit, you see.) That's what, 3400 US$ or so?

hi, I agree with you that the youth of today are losing moral value. Perhaps its just the age, but i feel that we don't take responsibility. I try to not go along with this popular idea, but sometimes i am a member of this new apathetic generation. not all of us are bad. I'm straight edge and have an interest in the future of our country.

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To this day I still cannot comprehend the people who suggest that dangerous crime has not increased dramatically since the 50's

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To this day I still cannot comprehend the people who suggest that dangerous crime has increased dramatically because of no prayer in school and the 1960's generation.Some of the most heinous crimes in US history occurred while prayer in school was a common occurrance and the 'worst' drug around was marijuana.Leopold and Loeb, the Black Dahlia, etc.Of course, I also find it ironic that that supposed 'evil' generation of the 60's was the product of that oh-so-righteous generation form the 50's.... I guess conservative, super-patriotic Americans make bad parenting decisions.
And, of course, I did not even mention the fact that "domestic violence", that is, wife and child beating, were not even considered crimes until well after that 'greatest' generation was fading...

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George Bush of Texas leading the charge with his tough on crime state of Texas.

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Now is that George Bush the 'former' cocaine addict and alcoholic? The szame 'womanizing' G. Bush? The one whose daughter's have been caught repeatedly drinking under age and using false IDs?Now THATS leadership!Do as King George says, not as he does.. did, I mean...And don't divorce your dying wife, like Newt...Or go on welfare, like Rush...Or get out of combat service, like Qualye...etc....

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truthlover writes:

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I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that owning a home in America is out of the reach of anyone who does a good job for an employer.
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Ah, yes...the poor are poor because they're lazy bums.

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And people claim the Left is the one engaging in class warfare....

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Utter bullshit. Utter condescending, out of touch bullshit.When I got out of the army, my wife and I moved to Lansing Michigan. we got a one-bedroom, no-frills apartment. No air conditioning. No dish washer. No free cable, etc.We were given a car by my wife's grandmother - no car payments.
Both of us landed full-time jobs at a large chain, and were paid, at the time, 50 cents an hout above minimum wage.Within 6 months, our savings were depleted. Just paying rent and bills. Two-full time incomes.Tell me, 'Truthlover', how was it that we could have purchased a home?No money for downpayment. No credit history to get a loan based on. Going broke just paying rent on a one-bedroom.The real truth is, not everyone can afford a home. Even if they work full time.Here in Vermont, a typical fixer-upper with little or no land will run you 125-150,000.The average income here is along the lines of 18,000.Maybe you can tell these overpaid underworked folks how they can own their own home.They have no chance. Rich folk from Boston and NY come out here to buy 2nd or 3rd 'get away' homes, and have no problem paying top-dollar. And so housing costs have gone out of reach for the typical Vermonter.I was lucky enough to land a better paying job way back when, and eventually worked my way through college.But I am not so out of touch, dispassionate, and arrogant to think that folks who can't do what I did are somehow desertving of their situation.

Losing moral values? Or finding better ones, perhaps? I'm all for gay marriage, for instance. That doesn't mean I have less morals than Buz (for instance), just that I have different ones. (He may disagree.)But this is the oldest argument around. "Kids! What's got into these kids these days?" Even Plato made this argument, and you know what? It isn't any truer now than it was then. I drink beer and also have an interest in the future of our country. And our country won't have a future so long as the Bush regime insists on perverting the memory of 9-11 to push all manner of draconian restrictions on American freedom.Sorry, didn't mean to launch off onto a soapbox tirade, but so many old people look at me like I'm a punk with no morals for no other reason than they've bought into a load of horseshit about how my generation has no morals and no work ethic.

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Losing moral values? Or finding better ones, perhaps? I'm all for gay marriage, for instance. That doesn't mean I have less morals than Buz (for instance), just that I have different ones. (He may disagree.)

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yes, we are making progress in some areas. I'm for gay marriages too and all that. perhaps not "moral value," maybe ethical value? so many kids today seem apathetic and indifferent.

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I drink beer and also have an interest in the future of our country.

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i'm not judging you. i'm straight edge for myself alone.

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And our country won't have a future so long as the Bush regime insists on perverting the memory of 9-11 to push all manner of draconian restrictions on American freedom.

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just because im edge doesn't mean i'm against freedom. actually i'm for the legalization of certain drugs because its only costing tax payers billions of dollars in law enforcement and prison. I'm edge by choice and others should be given the chance to be as well."Until today, we have only chosen one way: repression. There are only more police and more arrests; condemnations are more serious and the results are known. Mafias are getting richer, and the means to enforce the War on Drugs are getting more and more expensive and sophisticated, the number of addicts is increasing, as well as that of drug-related crimes, and narcotics run free in our prisons. Answers to these questions have always been the most ineffective and the challenge is becoming bigger and bigger. Only 10% of addicts are arrested."
-A. ALMEIDA SANTOS[This message has been edited by xwhydoyoureyesx, 08-16-2003]

You didn't say anything that would convince me this is true.I acknowledge that a person who is not willing to move may not be able to own a home in their area in some cases. That I would have acknowledged from the beginning. So that's all beside the point to me.

Well, since I don't think it has anything to do with no prayer in the schools, I guess this doesn't apply to me. (After all, if the National Day of Prayer changes nothing, why would prayer in schools change anything?)Things did start changing dramatically in the 60's. I've got to think that the people playing a role in the 60's had a lot to do with that. I suspect many of them feel real good about that. I think they did both good and bad, as most of us always do. Surely your concern is not attributing a lot of impact to them, right?I was only making one point, which is that dangerous crime has increased, and that *dramatically*, since the 50's, and I can't imagine why that's not obvious to anyone over 30.I said nothing about the causes, and I am neither a member of the Christian Coalition, nor particularly a right-winger.

That may very well be, but what exactly are we asking from kids these days? To take drastic moral or ethical action without being old enough to have the wisdom those actions require?I dunno, somehow it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Kids aren't supposed to be thinking about big, wieghty moral issues, are they?It's the apathetic adults that bother me. Like the ones that refuse to stand up against the gradual erosion of our freedoms. Yeah, I'm sorry - I was all set to judge you and be like "what, you can't handle alcohol, so you avoid it altogether?" until I realized that's actually just what I would want somebody who wasn't confident about their ability to handle the use of alcohol to do - avoid it. So, more power to you. Sorry to get all judgemental. Sure. Didn't mean to come down on you, really. I'm just of the opinion that the greatest danger to the future of our country isn't inactive teens, but too-active grown-ups with old-fashioned ideas about other people's freedom.

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I dunno, somehow it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Kids aren't supposed to be thinking about big, wieghty moral issues, are they?
It's the apathetic adults that bother me. Like the ones that refuse to stand up against the gradual erosion of our freedoms.

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perhaps. and maybe you're right, that we shouldn't have to deal with these issues. the world today is maybe just more complicated than the 50s. I'm all with you on the apathetic adults so i guess its just more frustrating for the kids who don't have any power to change anything.

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Yeah, I'm sorry - I was all set to judge you and be like "what, you can't handle alcohol, so you avoid it altogether?" until I realized that's actually just what I would want somebody who wasn't confident about their ability to handle the use of alcohol to do - avoid it. So, more power to you. Sorry to get all judgemental.

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this isn't a "so there." i've done marijuana and drank several times before i made the choice to be straight edge. It took me a couple months to decide i really wanted to make this commitment to myself. i appreciate the apology but, i can understand where you're coming from. a lot of people who are edge are fags and jump all over other people who aren't. i think its a personal decision and anything else is a real betrayal of the ideals.

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but too-active grown-ups with old-fashioned ideas about other people's freedom.

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tru[This message has been edited by xwhydoyoureyesx, 08-16-2003]

Hrm, I was all set to chalk you up as an ok guy, but then you said this: Maybe you'd like to rephrase that without the offensive anti-gay slur?