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Author Topic:   Giants in the Earth - v. 2.0
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5872 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1 of 16 (51358)
08-20-2003 10:12 AM


I'm opening this thread to continue the specific discussion of the truth or falsehood of the remains of giant humanoids that messanjah initiated. I consider the "horned skull" to be part and parcel of the discussion, so a legitimate subtopic. The original thread was closed by Adminmooseus - with justification - as being so far off-topic as to be unrecognizable.
I wanted to thank messenjah for his efforts to track down the particular museum in France that allegedly holds the skull he is using as a avatar. I hope he can get the information, if so, j'ai l'intention de leur envoyer un message si l'on peut determiner de quel muse il s'agit.
Another little piece of unverifiable information appears to center around the so-called "American Investigating Museum of Philadelphia" (or alternatively, "in" Philadelphia.) The only reference to this museum traces back to sites referencing the exact same - almost verbatim - claims about lost/stolen evidence. I emailed both the UPenn's Philadelphia Museum of Archeology and Anthropology (for any folkloriqe or cultural references) and also one of my favorites, the curator of the Unreal Museum, an on-line factual site covering topics as varied as cryptozoology and UFO's. We'll see if either of them come up with something.
What I find interesting about the majority of claims messenjah references is that the first iteration of most of them occur during the late 19th Century. Apparently, this was a boom time for such tales, from the Cardiff Giant to the South Haven Giant, to petrified humans, etc. Even Mark Twain apparently got into the act, writing a hoax article for a San Francisco paper concerning an alleged petrified man found in a tree... I found a fascinating list of newspaper articles about the South Haven Giant hoax culled from the newspapers at the time. Quite interesting.
I'm not saying that all of messenjah's information is spurious or questionable. Just that most of what I've been able to track down seems to so indicate.

Replies to this message:
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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 2 of 16 (51361)
08-20-2003 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Quetzal
08-20-2003 10:12 AM


Yeah, I emailed the owner of the site, Mary Sutherland, I guess shes a UFO type person, she said shes looking into it right now.
------------------
"I believe in christianity as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."-C.S. Lewis
holla at me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Quetzal, posted 08-20-2003 10:12 AM Quetzal has not replied

  
derwood
Member (Idle past 1876 days)
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 3 of 16 (51376)
08-20-2003 11:31 AM


For some reason, the picture would not show up (though it showed up on my browser when I did "preview"), so I can email to someone eityher to see for themselves or try to make it available on the forum.
Basically, I took the horned skull pic, upped the contrast and brightness and ran it through a "sharpen" filter.
There is a clear and abrupt change in the texture of the bone of the orbit and the base of the 'horn', which is particularly evident above the right orbit.
(p.s. - try this: http://www.geocities.com/huxter4441/skull.jpg)
pps - weird - it doesn't work as a link, but if you cut and paste the url, it seems to work...
------------------
(2) "A second characteristic of the pseudo-scientist, which greatly strengthens his isolation, is a tendency toward paranoia," which manifests itself in several ways:
...(3) He believes himself unjustly persecuted and discriminated against...(4) He has strong compulsions to focus his attacks on the greatest scientists and the best-established theories. ..
[This message has been edited by SLPx, 08-20-2003]

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Dan Carroll, posted 08-20-2003 4:59 PM derwood has replied
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joshua221 
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 4 of 16 (51401)
08-20-2003 4:35 PM


"The Circle of the Giants - Gilgal Refaim. 5200-year-old monument believed by some to have been built by the biblical giants, also called Nephilim."
Theres a pic on the page.
http://www.mt.net/~watcher/chamishgiants.html
------------------
"As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivably great!" (emphasis added) -- Charles Darwin

Replies to this message:
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 16 (51403)
08-20-2003 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by derwood
08-20-2003 11:31 AM


quote:
weird - it doesn't work as a link, but if you cut and paste the url, it seems to work...
For future reference... this will be the case with either geocities or angelfire. They don't allow remote linking, because if their bandwidth is going to get eaten up, they want you to see the ads.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by derwood, posted 08-20-2003 11:31 AM derwood has replied

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 6 of 16 (51416)
08-20-2003 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by joshua221
08-20-2003 4:35 PM


Texas Stadium - Arlington. Believed by some to have been built by the biblical giants, also called Nephelim.
Oops, I can't find that link......

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Zealot
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 16 (51547)
08-21-2003 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by derwood
08-20-2003 11:31 AM


For some reason, the picture would not show up (though it showed up on my browser when I did "preview"), so I can email to someone eityher to see for themselves or try to make it available on the forum.
Basically, I took the horned skull pic, upped the contrast and brightness and ran it through a "sharpen" filter.
There is a clear and abrupt change in the texture of the bone of the orbit and the base of the 'horn', which is particularly evident above the right orbit.
Hi, I tried same, but no results. Could you send to grumpyd19@yahoo.com pls. I'm sure we can 'assume' this is a hoax until the actuall source is verfied, but I dont see Paintshop as our verifier
Either way I think it must be a fake as it surely would have been documented. Part of arguing the Creationists stance Messengha is making 100% sure of your sources. Unfortunitely there are many 'Christians' and 'Evolutionists' that will claim to have discovered something and write a book about it, purely for monetary gain. They feed off our 'need' to have to be right and know that if they write a 'revolutionary' book , people will buy it.
I agree a true Christian would never 'falsify' evidence to have people believe in God, however its not difficult to call yourself a Christian just to make money.
cheers

This message is a reply to:
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derwood
Member (Idle past 1876 days)
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 8 of 16 (51558)
08-21-2003 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Dan Carroll
08-20-2003 4:59 PM


Ahh - makes sense...

This message is a reply to:
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derwood
Member (Idle past 1876 days)
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 9 of 16 (51559)
08-21-2003 1:40 PM


quote:
I'm sure we can 'assume' this is a hoax until the actuall source is verfied, but I dont see Paintshop as our verifier
Well, Paintshop only enhances (actually, re-hances, as it appears that the pic on the linked page was 'doctored' to make the features less clear) the details of the picture. Looking at the anatomy - or supposed anatomy - is the clincher. I've seen animal skulls with horns - deer, bulls, etc. - and none have such a marked and "instant" change in texture at the base of the horn.
I'll email you the pic tomorrow.

Replies to this message:
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Zealot
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 16 (51684)
08-21-2003 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by derwood
08-21-2003 1:40 PM


Well, Paintshop only enhances (actually, re-hances, as it appears that the pic on the linked page was 'doctored' to make the features less clear) the details of the picture. Looking at the anatomy - or supposed anatomy - is the clincher. I've seen animal skulls with horns - deer, bulls, etc. - and none have such a marked and "instant" change in texture at the base of the horn.
Could you show us a comparison somewhere if you have other pictures ? Just that I did exactly the same, except I magnified it and increased the contrast/brightness, but the horns had the same shading as other parts of the skull that was photographed at a similar angle. Then again I dont have many skulls to compare to and admittedly I am not an expert in Graphic design.
grumpyd19@yahoo.com
cheers

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Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Quetzal, posted 08-22-2003 5:32 AM Zealot has not replied

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5872 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 11 of 16 (51768)
08-22-2003 5:32 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Zealot
08-21-2003 9:01 PM


Topic Drift - In My Own Bloody Topic
Okay guys, I appreciate the technical debate concerning how to view computer images, etc. However, I'd prefer it if we could focus a bit more on validating or invalidating the various giant claims messenjah referenced on the original thread.
For instance, useful information would be:
1. existence or non-existence of the putative French museum
2. existence or non-existence of the "American Investigating Museum" of Philadelphia
3. Any reference or discussion of the Brown County, Ohio, 1883 mention of "giant skeletons"
4. any references or discussion of the "Cumberland Giant" (c'mon you Brits, this one's your myth).
5. The Lompock Giant, Crittenden Arizona Giant, etc. Any info is appreciated.
I would consider that malachite man, moab man, Acambara giants to have been sufficiently debunked (they were only mentioned in passing by messanjah).
We ought to be able to do better than this...
{Note from Adminnemooseus - THANK YOU FOR DOING THIS MESSAGE. I wish more members would do such moderations of the topics they start.} Also, the side discussion could perhaps have best been taken to a "Short Term..." forum topic.}
[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 08-22-2003]

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Replies to this message:
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derwood
Member (Idle past 1876 days)
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 12 of 16 (51818)
08-22-2003 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Quetzal
08-22-2003 5:32 AM


Re: Topic Drift - In My Own Bloody Topic
Well, it isn't really drift, as it pertains to the validity of the hornbed skull - and after all, Moose closed my thread stating that this thread was on the same topic...
However, I think Zealot missed the point:
I am not talikng anbout shading, I am talking about the texture, which can clearly be seen above the right orbit.
As you can see, the light source is at the above right (the skull's perspective), so there is no shade issue above the right orbit. It is the abrupt change of texture form the bone of the skull to the base of the horn - which tells me that the horn was stuck on with clay or something.
So, if the horned skull at "The French Museum" is a fake, then the horned-people story loses some of its punch.

This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 13 of 16 (51908)
08-22-2003 5:58 PM


It wouldn't surprise me if this was in fact at a French museum - an art museum?
I mean, what's that bead stuff across the back? This looks like sculpture, not archeology.
Wait... now here's a link that says that this self-same skull is in London, not France...
Skulls - Ancient and Abnormal Skulls of Giants and Anunnaki
And then when you click on it, it says it's in France again.
Hrm, this seems to be the page that MessenjaH is getting most of his info from. Although they claim that the horned skulls are evidence of alien genes in humans, not of biblical devils.

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by MarkAustin, posted 08-23-2003 5:38 PM crashfrog has replied

  
derwood
Member (Idle past 1876 days)
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 14 of 16 (51972)
08-23-2003 12:23 PM


Yeah, and that hat-thing looks pretty silly, too.

  
MarkAustin
Member (Idle past 3815 days)
Posts: 122
From: London., UK
Joined: 05-23-2003


Message 15 of 16 (51990)
08-23-2003 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by crashfrog
08-22-2003 5:58 PM


crashfrog
Commenting on the link you posted, as you say the top level refers to "the London Museum". As a Londoner, I can categorically state that there is no such institution in London. The nearest (in name) is The Museum of London - dedicated to the history of London, and thus very unlikely to be a repository of such an item. It seems to be typicl of such faked photos: credited to some distant organisation. It is noticable that in no case on that site are exact locations given for any of the photographs, thus rendering all of them highly suspect, given the ease with which photographs can be manipulated (even leaving aside the possibility of physical fraud).

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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