Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,806 Year: 3,063/9,624 Month: 908/1,588 Week: 91/223 Day: 2/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Older and wiser
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 16 of 31 (152981)
10-26-2004 2:31 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by crashfrog
10-26-2004 2:27 AM


Re: Atheism isn't really a choice
You mean to say that you could not pretend to be a believer in God and absolute truth? You surely know the arguments.
If atheism is not a choice, is it then a given...for lack of proof?
Riiiiight.
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-26-2004 01:33 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by crashfrog, posted 10-26-2004 2:27 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by crashfrog, posted 10-26-2004 2:37 AM Phat has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 17 of 31 (152983)
10-26-2004 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Phat
10-26-2004 2:31 AM


You mean to say that you could not pretend to be a believer in God and absolute truth?
Why would I want to pretend? That would make a mockery of your beliefs and my principles, and the principles of religious freedom we cherish in our society.
I can't follow any religion sincerely, so I follow none. It's not really a choice.
If atheism is not a choice, is it then a given...for lack of proof?
It's the inescapable conclusion when one realizes that there is no more proof for God than for anything else that we comfortably assume does not exist.
Like the man said, you and I are both atheists, with a difference of degree - I disbelieve in one more God than you do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Phat, posted 10-26-2004 2:31 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 10-26-2004 3:42 AM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 10-26-2004 3:46 AM crashfrog has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 18 of 31 (152985)
10-26-2004 3:42 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by crashfrog
10-26-2004 2:37 AM


The Devils Advocates
I am going to open a new topic on this issue. Born2Preach, we can have our discussion there, unless you want to start it here. Basically, again, the idea of this debate is for anyone participating to take the opposite or different position than what they actually believe. Crashfrog has already opted out by claiming to be unable to act. Actors take on characters that they are not like. I am asking participants to take on the beliefs that they usually defend their beliefs against. For example, Mike the Wiz, Buzsaw, Myself(Phatboy) Chris and Prophex, Willowtree, and Jar will become atheists.
Gilgamesh, Lam, Nosy Ned,Sidelined,and Schraff will become Monotheists. It would be easiest to be Christian Theists, so i will suggest that. All of us can take this light, yet we must use the counter arguments to which we have been accustomed. Does anyone else want to participate? Should we start a new thread?
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-26-2004 02:43 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by crashfrog, posted 10-26-2004 2:37 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 19 of 31 (152986)
10-26-2004 3:46 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by crashfrog
10-26-2004 2:37 AM


Crashfrog writes:
It's the inescapable conclusion when one realizes that there is no more proof for God than for anything else that we comfortably assume does not exist.
The whole point is for you to take on a debate using the philosophy used by Theists. It is not supposed to be "comfortable" and I can see why you are backing off..how in the world could you "comfortably" assume anything? That smacks of you having your own human wisdom as your god.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by crashfrog, posted 10-26-2004 2:37 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by crashfrog, posted 10-26-2004 4:06 PM Phat has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 20 of 31 (153098)
10-26-2004 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Phat
10-26-2004 3:46 AM


The whole point is for you to take on a debate using the philosophy used by Theists.
Oh. I guess I missed that. I didn't realize that you were asking me to "act" like a theist for purpose of debate. Not that I'm interested in that, though.
Good luck pretending to be an atheist. I'm not exactly sure what it will accomplish when you "lose" to B2P.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 10-26-2004 3:46 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 10-26-2004 7:21 PM crashfrog has replied

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6155 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 21 of 31 (153125)
10-26-2004 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by crashfrog
10-26-2004 4:06 PM


Good luck pretending to be an atheist. I'm not exactly sure what it will accomplish when you "lose" to B2P.
It's really hard to argue for something you don't agree with in my experience. And really, it's a lose-lose situation to do so there.
If he wins, he just took the faith of a preacher-to-be, which I'm sure he doesn't want.
If he loses, neither of our minds are changed and for once I get a win.(I don't consider it a win or lose unless somebody's point of view is completely changed, which means I'm still 0-0. In this case it'll be a win because all I have to do is not change my mind. I rule.)

God is far more powerful than what most have in mind. Imagine God as best you can. Now zoom out from that picture in your mind and imagine a God above the previous one, even more powerful than the first. Zoom out further and imagine an even greater God. Now do that endlessly. That, my friend, is but a glimmering sliver of God.
Xanga 2.0 is Here! (WARNING:EXPLICT LANGUAGE)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by crashfrog, posted 10-26-2004 4:06 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by crashfrog, posted 10-26-2004 7:27 PM One_Charred_Wing has replied
 Message 26 by zephyr, posted 10-30-2004 1:21 PM One_Charred_Wing has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 22 of 31 (153128)
10-26-2004 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by One_Charred_Wing
10-26-2004 7:21 PM


If he loses, neither of our minds are changed and for once I get a win.
Well, he's not going to win. Even if he could, he's going to pull that final punch.
I just don't see what kind of a "win" it is for you if the only win you could have is against someone who has no intention of doing anything but letting you win.
It'd be like me in a boxing match with Mike Tyson, only the part of Mike Tyson will be played by a soft, cuddly kitten. Have I really won a boxing match when I inevitably kick the kitten's ass?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 10-26-2004 7:21 PM One_Charred_Wing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 10-26-2004 7:35 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6155 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 23 of 31 (153131)
10-26-2004 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by crashfrog
10-26-2004 7:27 PM


Well, he's not going to win. Even if he could, he's going to pull that final punch.
I just don't see what kind of a "win" it is for you if the only win you could have is against someone who has no intention of doing anything but letting you win.
If somebody stood in my way, bracing himself and saying "kick me!" then I'd by all means kick him. I realize his point is not to win, but maybe if I make a topic like that I can get some real heavy hitters to join in.
(edited to fix grammar)
This message has been edited by Born2Preach, 10-26-2004 06:36 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by crashfrog, posted 10-26-2004 7:27 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 31 (154094)
10-29-2004 10:44 AM


I dunno, the devils advocate approach is valid, if done with the right frame of mind. It is very inetersting to try to think your way through someone elses analysis sufficiently well to advance the argument.
It's slightly more problematic in apublic forum, but not untenable.

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by sidelined, posted 10-30-2004 12:53 AM contracycle has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5907 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 25 of 31 (154326)
10-30-2004 12:53 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by contracycle
10-29-2004 10:44 AM


contracycle
I do not personally think that such a topic would last before tempers flared and admins beat us back to the stone age. Oh well since when did I ever take things cautiously? Count me in if the thread ever starts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by contracycle, posted 10-29-2004 10:44 AM contracycle has not replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4549 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 26 of 31 (154426)
10-30-2004 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by One_Charred_Wing
10-26-2004 7:21 PM


.
Man, I checked out your site and just about lost my ass laughing. I'm glad to see such an open-minded young man headed for the ministry. If you don't get totally disillusioned and bail out, you might actually do people some good. A lot of folks could use your kind of perspective mixed in with the run-of-the-mill dogma they get in churches, you know

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 10-26-2004 7:21 PM One_Charred_Wing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 10-30-2004 1:26 PM zephyr has replied

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6155 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 27 of 31 (154427)
10-30-2004 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by zephyr
10-30-2004 1:21 PM


Thank you
Thanks a lot for dropping a glace and enjoying the site. Good to see you're still doing okay. Are you still in Iraq or on leave right now?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by zephyr, posted 10-30-2004 1:21 PM zephyr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by zephyr, posted 10-30-2004 2:24 PM One_Charred_Wing has not replied

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6155 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 28 of 31 (154428)
10-30-2004 1:29 PM


Not a topic drift
Before they tag us for topic drift, I'll make that proposed topic. It'll be entitled something like 'Refute the unrefutable'. I'll edit in the actual title, and I'll try to think of a cooler name for it.
(EDITED IN)
Actual title:'Atheistic Preacher?'
I'll update when it either gets approved or dumped.
(Got approved. Bring it on!)
This message has been edited by Born2Preach, 10-30-2004 12:42 PM
This message has been edited by Born2Preach, 10-30-2004 04:48 PM

God is far more powerful than what most have in mind. Imagine God as best you can. Now zoom out from that picture in your mind and imagine a God above the previous one, even more powerful than the first. Zoom out further and imagine an even greater God. Now do that endlessly. That, my friend, is but a glimmering sliver of God.
Xanga 2.0 is Here! (WARNING:EXPLICT LANGUAGE)

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4549 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 29 of 31 (154446)
10-30-2004 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by One_Charred_Wing
10-30-2004 1:26 PM


Re: Thank you
Heh... didn't you see my "For Sidelined (greetings from Iraq)" thread today?
I've got 129 days down and about 35 to go. \m/ \m/

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 10-30-2004 1:26 PM One_Charred_Wing has not replied

  
Tony650
Member (Idle past 4032 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 30 of 31 (154521)
10-30-2004 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by One_Charred_Wing
10-24-2004 2:01 AM


Ack! It seems that I'm a little late. My apologies. Happy belated birthday, Preach! Hope you had a good one!
Born2Preach writes:
That's right, you knuckleheads: I'm now 17 years old. Ha! Who's old and wise NOW?!
*sigh* I remember being seventeen. Well, if you're old and wise, that must make me very, very..............wise.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 10-24-2004 2:01 AM One_Charred_Wing has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024