Holy Smokes! Calling Buz and Steven!

A town in Italy is having some problems with things mysteriously going up in flames for apparently no reason at all. There are no answers yet, but many are suggesting that it could be DEMONS!!!!Here is something for Buz and Steven to check out in greater detail (and no I am not punking on them). I am curious (if you are too, check out the link)... http://www.reuters.com/...
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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

If this is actually happening, which I'm inclined to doubt, I should think it would have something to do with the electrical lines in the town. Except for the Mosaic bush, things don't generally burst into flames without natural cause.

Well I've been wondering about Reuters for a while now. I've seen many slanted articles and one which managed to work a paragraph proselytizing God into a science article which would actually NOT support the Bible.But here is yet another article out today in Reuters on the continuing demon problem Italy is facing...What I don't get is why Steve and Buz are not jumping all over this. Here I am actually giving them the support they want.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

I dunno, Holmes. I'm beginning to wonder if God is trying to tell us something. Maybe he's upset about "Darwinist Ideology". Perhaps Syamsu and Skeptic should be consulted. Pat Robertson might have something to say as well.Seriously, Sicily is a strange place. Her people have never been very happy, and if I remember correctly the mafia has dominated her government and churches for most of the past few centuries. Stories like this appear from time to time. I suspect that if you could find a way to study and document any and all ritual Catholic exorcisms performed in modern times, a pretty high percentage would come from Sicily. I have nothing on which to document this other than my own spotty memory of these stories over the years, but that Sicily is a bizarre place can be easily established.EDIT: Getting back to the important story that is the topic of this thread, I see that the major British media have weighed in with this.Other news of great social import are covered here as well, as you'll see from the 'Related Stories' links.[This message has been edited by berberry, 02-13-2004]

Hi. This is interesting. The question arises in my mind as to the accuracy of this story.1. If it is true, it should be all over the planet's media big time. That doesn't, however mean it will be, as the majority of the planet's media is secularist/humanist oriented to the degree that it is media incorrect and ta heck with truth.2. If it is not true, the media should also be on it big time so as to expose it's falacy in support of their secularist/humanist agenda.3. If it is true and can be proven to be true, science needs to retool and admit that there is a supernatural dimension in the universe. The secularist folks who debate creationists and criticize us for wanting to include the supernatural in our arguments in town here certainly would not like this to be true.I have posted a lot about the prophecy of Revelation 17 and 18 concerning Mystery Babylon being Vatican City. Since it's been over a year ago, I don't remember whether it was here or on NoPC that I posted about the connection of the Mafia with Vatican City. The judgement prophesied for Mystery Babylon is that this woman/city shall be destroyed by fire in one hour. Sicily is known as the home base of the Mafia. Is this a warning from God via his angels of what's to come to the region? I don't know.It may be demonic since according to the prophecy of Revelation 18, Mystery Babylon is hated and persecuted by another evil, the 7 headed, 10 horned beast connected to the antichrist which imo is pro Islamic.It's interesting at any rate and will be interesting to watch and think about, as well as to discuss.Holmes, the reason I haven't "jumped" on this yet is that I'm not glued to my computer 24/7 as you seem to be. [This message has been edited by buzsaw, 02-13-2004]

According to the reports, it's happening to things like cell phones, unplugged appliances and furniture. How can this have anything to do with electrical lines?

Just to let you know I commented about your not having been in this thread yet, because I saw you posted in other places since I started it. Thus its not the difference in computer time... you probably just didn't see it yet.As far as your points go, let's leave out media bias right now as that is a separate topic altogether. I disagree with your position but I don't think there will be any objective way to settle it.So let's concentrate that whatever bias there is out there (even none), the story has reached us and we can start digging.I agree with you that there may be a lot of people that get shaken up by this story and so hope it just goes away. While I am pretty secular, no amount of truth scares me, so I am open to further research wherever it goes. I am a bit sceptical but I would like to know more.I am unsure if I agree with the assessment that science would need to "retool". It would create a new paradigm that would be dramatically different than the current one, but that is nothing new to science. Last century we had a couple major paradigm shifts that freaked some scientists out, and I'm sure there will be more in the future.Heheheh... the universe always keeps people hopping.It is interesting that you have found reasons for that region to be a hotbed of demon activity. We'll have to see what emerges.I hope you'll run with this a bit and get data where you can. I figured it is more up your alley than it is mine and so you may know of more sources, or at least frequent such sources more than I do.You'll find me an avid reader on anything you get, even if I am basically a sceptic at heart.And as far as your reply to berberry. You are right that there are nonelectrical things that are going up in flames as well. The only possible explanation for that is if they are nearby something electrical which is shorting out and so throwing sparks to ignite them. Then again that does not explain cell phones (unless they are in their chargers).Let's see where it goes.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

But media bias is relative to arriving at and reporting truth here. As I stated, if it's true it SHOULD have been a big story, being the extraordinary phenomenon it is, if true. If it had something to do with debunking the supernatural like finding a bed of distinct missing links you can imagine the huge fus the media would make over it.Mainstream media has this way of making a lota noise about what supports their bias agendas and conveniently undermining any which is incompatible with same. This seems to be why they get so excited about any tid bit, how ever insignificant which would hint of support to evo, all the while, ignoring things like tools and utinsels found encased in coal beds which would support creo and the Genesis record. Well I've mixed feelings about it. No, I'm not glad to see these people have their things burn up. Yes, because if this is what it takes to get their attention and the attention of the world to the fact of the supernatural it is good for them and us.It's interesting that in places of extreme evil, Biblically speaking, the supernatural evil becomes manifest. I've heard numerous missionaries speak and read about testimony's of others who've served in the deep jungles of Africa, South America and some of the islands like New Ginea and Haite. They all attest to the fact of the evidence of the supernatual evil in these places where witchcraft, voodoo, and other demonic activity prevails. This also, from testimonies of converts who've come out of spirtualist cults testifying of things like levitation, communication with spirits, etc.The above may have some bearing on this story about Sicily and what's going on there, bearing in mind that the ultra evil mafia seems to be allowed santuary in the region.According to the prophecies, Revelation 13 being an example, the supernatural will be practiced and recognized by mainstream world government, in what the Bible calls the latter days, to the point that worship will be a requirement for all individuals, failure to compliance being death. The mode of death is even prophesied in Revelation chapter 20 as being beheading, which has always been commonly practiced in much of Islamland. Paradigm? I would say more of a major overhaul than simply another paradigm. The text books would be obsolete with the addition of the supernatural dimension. What is observed would become at least open to discussion to include a supernatural explanation for all the wonder of what is observed. At least it do keep you people hopping who have no certain guide/manual to explain it all. On the contrary, so far it has left us who see Biblical history, reality and know the prophecies with no big surprises. Thanks, Holmes. I do appreciate your attitude here and hope we can get to the bottom of what's going on over there. Abe Lincoln once said about a man who was the object of a conversation between him and a friend. Lincoln said, "See that fellow over there? I don't like him. I guess I'll have to get to know him better." I've found that to be true often in my own life. Folks who I've not been inclined to like often become good friends. Maybe I need to get to know you better and you, me. Peace. Nor does it explain the apparant reoccurance or repetition of these phenomena in one specific town.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who says what is happening is supernatural? It is now tampering with the natural so it is at least somewhat testable and part of the natural world whatever it is.Of course, there is no way we have an accurate description of what has and has not happened so far. So all guesses are on pretty shaky ground anyway.

I'd like to just read this thread but first just a small input. I have thought of that very thing recently Ned. If the supernatural can be observed or detected via natural ways, then surely it becomes somewhat natural. However, fire is natural - so at the moment there could be many reasons for what is going on. I think logical reasons could and probably are more likely to be the case of fires, unless there is an overwhelming difference between these cases and other fires. It seems there is no catalyst, so: "what logically could cause these fires?" - would be my next question.

I'd want to really know what is going on first. And I'd like to check out the locals stories. This could, for one thing, be a great tourist attraction, couldn't it?

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I think all agree here, Ned. More needs to be researched on this story. Tourist attraction? Mmmm........better be prayed up in the name of Jesus, who the demons fear and who's name makes them tremble.

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But media bias is relative to arriving at and reporting truth here.

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Actually I did not mean to come off as disagreeing with this point. My only argument is that we all have opinions as to what kind of biases are out there and starting into that discussion will seriously derail this thread... remember how your thread got derailed for awhile based on your quoting FOX?I'd rather use this thread to look at what we can get on these stories and concentrate on that alone.

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Paradigm? I would say more of a major overhaul than simply another paradigm. The text books would be obsolete with the addition of the supernatural dimension. What is observed would become at least open to discussion to include a supernatural explanation...

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Well to be clear a paradigm shift is a major overhaul of theory... My disagreement was with your calling it a "retooling".You are correct that if this started panning out, new forces (ones currently termed "supernatural") would enter the picture for discussion. It would also change textbooks. But as scientist can tell ya, it doesn't take too long for science textbooks to need updating.I think this would be "earthshaking" in the same sense that finding evidence of life off the earth would be pretty "earthshaking", but it is a change and not an end for science.

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At least it do keep you people hopping who have no certain guide/manual to explain it all. On the contrary, so far it has left us who see Biblical history, reality and know the prophecies with no big surprises.

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Now now there, the earth going around the sun, the heavens not being a metal sphere, and even today with evidence for evolution, the Universe keeps Biblical scholars hopping too.It's just plain hard for humans of every stripe to understand the world around them.Gotta keep trying, though.

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"See that fellow over there? I don't like him. I guess I'll have to get to know him better."

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This is what I try to do all the time.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Lo and behold, we still use and hear the term, "the sun is going down," don't we, rather than "the earth is rotating into night?"Heavens a metal sphere?? Biblical??

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Lo and behold, we still use and hear the term, "the sun is going down," don't we, rather than "the earth is rotating into night?"

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Correct. In fact at Chicago's planetarium it has a section defending the mistakes of geocentrists in its section on the history of astronomy. From our vantage point it sure looks that way, and it takes a lot more than just looking carefully to figure out we are not at the center.There was a bit of math and careful prediction of OTHER planetary bodies which were necessary to make the distinction... something not very likely when the Bible was written.But that does not change matters. The Bible suggests the earth is not moving at all and everything else moves about it. This is pretty clear, and kept theists hopping like water on a hot pan for some amount of time.You can of course say that it was our faulty interpretation of the Bible, and not the Bible's fault of terms. Fine. But all the same it points to the Universe keeping everyone second guessing.

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Heavens a metal sphere?? Biblical??

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Yeah, by which I meant the sky and stars and not "heaven". I forget the passage now, but it's been quoted before on this site. I honestly cannot remember the exact passage right now, and will gladly cede this point (for now), so we can stay on topic.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)