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Author | Topic: Terri Schiavo and the separation of powers | |||||||||||||||||||||||
vossy Inactive Member |
holmes writes: If it is really true that Bush signed a law allowing hospitals to unhook patients over the wishes of relatives, in order to save money, why is no one hammering on this in the media? Look no further than last night's The Daily Show. Go to Comedy Central Official Site - TV Show Full Episodes & Funny Video Clips and check out the video titled "Congressional Meddle" Jon Stewart's take at the end of the clip is priceless. There's no better place to find sanity these days than that show.
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5840 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
Oh man, that was goooood. The major irony being in order to watch that video I had to have an army recruitment "video" running at the same time. What's with ComCen working as tool for Bush's efforts?
holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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vossy Inactive Member |
Glad you liked it! Jon pretty much summed up my feelings on the issue, too.
What's with ComCen working as tool for Bush's efforts? $$$$ There's Army commercials all over the airwaves here. I don't know how many U.S. channels you get in Holland, but they target a lot of stuff I watch (male 18-34 demographic).
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goldenlightArchangel Member (Idle past 1173 days) Posts: 583 From: Roraima Peak Joined: |
Hi,
Whatever decisions one has made in the past as well as whatever decisions that one makes now or in the future, concerning life or death, doesn't come from the human self alone, because one can't say that it was her/his personal decision as if she/he would have all the rights (according to the eternal justice) to have total control of the situation/ because whenever one says that "..how would it have turned out, if the doctors didnt try so hard to save that life of the person that you love.." or "..how would it have turned out, if I hadn't asked the doctors to do that.." then, one makes it sound as if one would have power to keep a division between what is human's design and Yahweh's design, and 'statements', like the two above, are very aggressive statements against Yahweh/Gehaveh of the Hosts and against the eternal justice. / human beings are mortals and none have that right to make divisions between what is under the power of the celestial and what is not, in regards to a personal decision whether it be medical or not// *******Written by Zsafira.
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berberry Inactive Member |
DHA writes me:
quote: I'm sorry I missed this at the time you posted it. I am aware of the historical use of these bills, but according to findlaw.com:
The prohibition embodied in this clause is not to be strictly and narrowly construed in the context of traditional forms but is to be interpreted in accordance with the designs of the framers so as to preclude trial by legislature, a violation of the separation of powers concept. By that, I would take it that the broader view of a bill of attainder would include acts such as this one of the Congress, in that it does amount to trial by legislature. Keep America Safe AND Free!
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goldenlightArchangel Member (Idle past 1173 days) Posts: 583 From: Roraima Peak Joined: |
I’m not in search for a horn in a horse’s head
Not even poking a sleeping leopard with a short stick But sometimes there’s no way to avoid the tempestuous storm in a cup of water. *******Written By Zsafira
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AdminJar Inactive Member |
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tsig Member (Idle past 2929 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
By that, I would take it that the broader view of a bill of attainder would include acts such as this one of the Congress, in that it does amount to trial by legislature. You are exactly right. It seems that the Terry S. law is unconstitutional, maybe that's why the judges didn't want to touch it. Thanks for the link.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1524 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Hi Berberry,
It is kind of sickening, (no pun intended) that many of these 'right to lifers' parading and picketting in they're self rightiousness get so self absorbed in this case. And you are right the hypocracy is laughable, I heard one man was arrested for holding up a gun store in the hopes of "freeing Terry." People in much more dire circumstances starving while crusaders wade and spend hundreds of thousands to save some beached dolphins. It seems that any cause that the media get ahold of becomes THE story and the true issues are smeared. Everyday in America feeding tubes are removed, ventelators turned off and lifesaving medications discontinued. But give a face to it and you have yourself a media frenzy. Americans just love reality shows.
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goldenlightArchangel Member (Idle past 1173 days) Posts: 583 From: Roraima Peak Joined: |
Hi 1.61803,
that is what I was trying to say in my recent post// /mf + r = H2'O /..media frenzy.. + made by professionals [in the art of rambling] = a tempestuous storm in a cup of water. This message has been edited by Zsafira, 03-25-2005 05:59 PM
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1425 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
here is an interesting article that relates to the rights of people to have a voice in their passing:
The Myth Of Dying, by Polly ToynbeeThe myth of dying | Polly Toynbee | The Guardian freedom to choosefreedom to live your life to the end enjoy. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}} |
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
holmes writes:
quote: No. The legislation specifically and directly states that the federal judicial system shall have jurisdiction in the Terri Schiavo case AND ONLY the Terry Schiavo case and that was passed specifically for the benefit of Terry's parents. The text can be found here:
AN ACT: For the relief of the parents of Theresa Marie Schiavo The problem (or only sanity, depending upon which side of the issue one falls) is that the act does not say the court has to actually hear the case:
After a determination of the merits of a suit brought under this Act, the District Court shall issue such declaratory and injunctive relief as may be necessary to protect the rights of Theresa Marie Schiavo under the Constitution and laws of the United States relating to the withholding or withdrawal of food, fluids, or medical treatment necessary to sustain her life. "After a determination of the merits of a suit." So far, every single federal court has said that the suits the parents have brought before the federal courts have no merit. Again, this is the third time Terry's feeding tube has been removed with the idea that it would not be reinserted following many trials in which it was concluded that there is no question that Terry is in a persistent vegetative state, that there is no hope for recovery, and that Michael Schiavo is credible in his claim that Terry expressed a desire not to live like this.
quote: This is a clear violation of federalism and the concept of State's Rights, such a huge rallying cry of the right. The federal courts have no jurisdiction with regard to State functions and the legal environment surrounding death is a State function. It is the State that issues the death certificate, not the Feds. While Medicare (which is where the money is coming from to keep Terry alive) is paid for by the Feds, it is the State that administers and runs the program in each state. If the Feds are allowed to have jurisdiction on every single action taken by a State, then what is the point of having a State government? This was the problem regarding the 2000 election. What on earth was the SCOTUS doing inserting itself into the legal proceedings? The administration of voting is a State function, not a Federal one. That's why every State can apportion its electors any way it wants. Only 48 states have a "winner-take-all" approach. Nebraska and Maine have an apportioned method. This is not something that the Feds are allowed to regulate. While there are federal interests in voting (such as ensuring that everybody who is eligible to vote is allowed to vote), the question of the physical process by which the vote is carried out is not a Federal question but a State one. If it were a Federal question, then there would be a single, Federal standard for how Federal elections take place and there isn't. But I guess this just goes along with the current administration definition of marriage: One man, one woman, and Congress. Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
1.61803 writes:
quote: Let us not forget that the hospice these people are picketing is housing a great many more people other than Terry. How do you think they and their families are feeling having to deal with a bunch of screaming people and news vans outside while they are suffering their last days? People are breaking into the place and sneaking around. The entire point of hospice is to provide comfort as one approaches one's death. What was supposed to be a place of calm and peace has now been made obnoxious and painful because of these people. If these people have such a reverence for life, why can't they let these people die in peace? Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5840 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
The legislation specifically and directly states that the federal judicial system shall have jurisdiction in the Terri Schiavo case AND ONLY the Terry Schiavo case and that was passed specifically for the benefit of Terry's parents. The text can be found here: I wonder why Wolf Blitzer didn't call anyone on their complete misstatements of fact. This act was nothing like what was described by the Rep congressman.
This is a clear violation of federalism and the concept of State's Rights, such a huge rallying cry of the right. You probably missed my post acknowledging that I understood what an utter hypocrisy this was for any Rep, as well as a problem for Fed/state issues. I tend to like state's rights and so was not very keen on this kind of oversight. However, as I saw it stated on Late Edition, the level of oversight seemed so limited that it did not really bother me much. Remember from what I heard, which just goes to show what liars Reps are, all this was was calling for a Fed review of facts and processes only for state cases where there was a dispute by family members regarding the termination of life support, and the issue was not covered directly by state law. I didn't necessarily think it was necessary, nor that it was preferable, just that I did not see it as a gross overstepping of Fed vs State issues. Clearly, the link you provided showed that it was a gross overstepping, sets a horrific precedent, and not just on the Fed vs State power issue.
But I guess this just goes along with the current administration definition of marriage: One man, one woman, and Congress. I was under the impression that was simply a side-effect of their definition of the USA: One God, One country, One King. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
holmes writes:
quote: Sorta, kinda, almost. The law specifically states that if the treating physicians think that life-sustaining treatment is hopeless, then the medical staff can file to end treatment with the hospital. If the family is incapable of finding another facility that wishes to take in the person in need of treatment within 10 days of the reviewed decision to discontinue treatment, and the family is responsible for finding the money to transfer the patient, then the hospital can end treatment.
Section 166.046. PROCEDURE IF NOT EFFECTUATING A DIRECTIVE OR TREATMENT DECISION. (a) If an attending physician refuses to honor a patient's advance directive or a health care or treatment decision made by or on behalf of a patient, the physician's refusal shall be reviewed by an ethics or medical committee. The attending physician may not be a member of that committee. The patient shall be given life-sustaining treatment during the review. (b) The patient or the person responsible for the health care decisions of the individual who has made the decision regarding the directive or treatment decision: (1) may be given a written description of the ethics or medical committee review process and any other policies and procedures related to this section adopted by the health care facility; (2) shall be informed of the committee review process not less than 48 hours before the meeting called to discuss the patient's directive, unless the time period is waived by mutual agreement; (3) at the time of being so informed, shall be provided: (A) a copy of the appropriate statement set forth in Section 166.052; and (B) a copy of the registry list of health care providers and referral groups that have volunteered their readiness to consider accepting transfer or to assist in locating a provider willing to accept transfer that is posted on the website maintained by the Texas Health Care Information Council under Section 166.053; and (4) is entitled to: (A) attend the meeting; and (B) receive a written explanation of the decision reached during the review process. (c) The written explanation required by Subsection (b)(2)(B) must be included in the patient's medical record. (d) If the attending physician, the patient, or the person responsible for the health care decisions of the individual does not agree with the decision reached during the review process under Subsection (b), the physician shall make a reasonable effort to transfer the patient to a physician who is willing to comply with the directive. If the patient is a patient in a health care facility, the facility's personnel shall assist the physician in arranging the patient's transfer to: (1) another physician; (2) an alternative care setting within that facility; or (3) another facility. (e) If the patient or the person responsible for the health care decisions of the patient is requesting life-sustaining treatment that the attending physician has decided and the review process has affirmed is inappropriate treatment, the patient shall be given available life-sustaining treatment pending transfer under Subsection (d). The patient is responsible for any costs incurred in transferring the patient to another facility. The physician and the health care facility are not obligated to provide life-sustaining treatment after the 10th day after the written decision required under Subsection (b) is provided to the patient or the person responsible for the health care decisions of the patient unless ordered to do so under Subsection (g). (e-1) If during a previous admission to a facility a patient's attending physician and the review process under Subsection (b) have determined that life-sustaining treatment is inappropriate, and the patient is readmitted to the same facility within six months from the date of the decision reached during the review process conducted upon the previous admission, Subsections (b) through (e) need not be followed if the patient's attending physician and a consulting physician who is a member of the ethics or medical committee of the facility document on the patient's readmission that the patient's condition either has not improved or has deteriorated since the review process was conducted. (f) Life-sustaining treatment under this section may not be entered in the patient's medical record as medically unnecessary treatment until the time period provided under Subsection (e) has expired. (g) At the request of the patient or the person responsible for the health care decisions of the patient, the appropriate district or county court shall extend the time period provided under Subsection (e) only if the court finds, by a preponderance of the evidence, that there is a reasonable expectation that a physician or health care facility that will honor the patient's directive will be found if the time extension is granted. (h) This section may not be construed to impose an obligation on a facility or a home and community support services agency licensed under Chapter 142 or similar organization that is beyond the scope of the services or resources of the facility or agency. This section does not apply to hospice services provided by a home and community support services agency licensed under Chapter 142. More directly related to the Schiavo case, Texas law, signed by Bush in 1999, states that when a patient has not signed any pre-existing agreement regarding life-saving care, it is the patient's spouse (assuming there is no other guardian) that makes the decision.
Section 166.039. PROCEDURE WHEN PERSON HAS NOT EXECUTED OR ISSUED A DIRECTIVE AND IS INCOMPETENT OR INCAPABLE OF COMMUNICATION. (b) If the patient does not have a legal guardian or an agentunder a medical power of attorney, the attending physician and one person, if available, from one of the following categories, in the following priority, may make a treatment decision that may include a decision to withhold or withdraw life-sustaining treatment: (1) the patient's spouse; (2) the patient's reasonably available adult children; (3) the patient's parents; or (4) the patient's nearest living relative. (c) A treatment decision made under Subsection (a) or (b)must be based on knowledge of what the patient would desire, if known. So under Texas law that Bush signed, Michael Schiavo is still in the right. He's the one that has the right to decide and he is, indeed, following what has been determined to be Terry's wishes. Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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