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Author Topic:   Pit bulls suck� Is it in their genes?
PMOC
Member (Idle past 5755 days)
Posts: 41
From: USA
Joined: 06-01-2007


Message 76 of 85 (457967)
02-26-2008 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by New Cat's Eye
02-26-2008 3:32 PM


Its like gun control. People will ask for reasons that justify owning a gun. The only reason that I need is that I want to have one.
I don't know of any guns that act based on their own instincts, so I don't accept the analogy.
Dog ownership isn't an inalienable right, it's a protected individual liberty and obviously individual liberties are limited based on the extent that they infringe upon others.
I'm one of the biggest dog lovers you will find, it's just my opinion that breed is too far gone and shouldn't be perpetuated because some people derive pleasure from owning them.
Hell, dog fighters derive pleasure from owning them. Should we let them continue on their merry way?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-26-2008 3:32 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-26-2008 3:51 PM PMOC has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 77 of 85 (457968)
02-26-2008 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by PMOC
02-26-2008 3:44 PM


I don't know of any guns that act based on their own instincts, so I don't accept the analogy.
It was analogous to people having to justify owning something when the only reason they need is that they want to.
You said that you disagree that wanting a pit bull is reaon enough to have one. I think its bullshit that you have to justify having something.
Dog ownership isn't an inalienable right, it's a protected individual liberty and obviously individual liberties are limited based on the extent that they infringe upon others.
Well, even inalieable rights are limited on that extent. You know, like you can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater if there is't one.
I'm one of the biggest dog lovers you will find, it's just my opinion that breed is too far gone and shouldn't be perpetuated because some people derive pleasure from owning them.
I see. I just don't think that they are too far gone. I don't even think they are bad.
Hell, dog fighters derive pleasure from owning them. Should we let them continue on their merry way?
False delimma. Dog fighters are breaking the law.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by PMOC, posted 02-26-2008 3:44 PM PMOC has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by PMOC, posted 02-26-2008 3:59 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
PMOC
Member (Idle past 5755 days)
Posts: 41
From: USA
Joined: 06-01-2007


Message 78 of 85 (457969)
02-26-2008 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by New Cat's Eye
02-26-2008 3:51 PM


False delimma. Dog fighters are breaking the law.
That just sounds like a question of timing.
You said that you disagree that wanting a pit bull is reaon enough to have one. I think its bullshit that you have to justify having something.
Then what is the difference with rocket launchers? What is the difference with a meth lab? What is the difference with pet 9ft crocodiles in the suburbs?
All of this civil liberty back and forth between us aside, I think the only thing we disagree on is the degree of danger pit bulls pose to society.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-26-2008 3:51 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-26-2008 4:16 PM PMOC has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 79 of 85 (457970)
02-26-2008 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by PMOC
02-26-2008 2:56 PM


PMOC writes:
My buddy has a border collie. The very first day of puppy class, she instinctively herded the other puppies into a corner. No one had to teach her this behavior, it was genetically encoded in the same way that aggressiveness towards other dogs is encoded in pits.
Funny how you mentioned this. I have a friend with a border collie and the same thing happened at the puppy training class.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by PMOC, posted 02-26-2008 2:56 PM PMOC has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 85 (457973)
02-26-2008 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by PMOC
02-26-2008 3:59 PM


All of this civil liberty back and forth between us aside, I think the only thing we disagree on is the degree of danger pit bulls pose to society.
This is true.
I don't think Pit Bulls are bad firstly because of my personal experiences. I've met many damn good pit bulls and have not met very many bad ones. I'll admit that mysample size is not that large.
I also think that the media gives them a worse rap. If a mutt attacks a kid, everyone starts yelling "pit bull!".
Plus, the kinds of people that are getting pitbulls are not good people so they are making the breed seem worse than it actually is.
What makes you think they are so bad?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by PMOC, posted 02-26-2008 3:59 PM PMOC has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by PMOC, posted 02-26-2008 7:44 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
PMOC
Member (Idle past 5755 days)
Posts: 41
From: USA
Joined: 06-01-2007


Message 81 of 85 (458002)
02-26-2008 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by New Cat's Eye
02-26-2008 4:16 PM


I know some great pit bulls also, but i also know some seemingly great ones that just had a streak. I honestly just think that the poor breed has been ruined by bad breeders breeding for undesirable traits. I think temperament can absolutely be manipulated genetically through breeding and this line is just out of control. Thats all.
Plus, the kinds of people that are getting pitbulls are not good people so they are making the breed seem worse than it actually is.
i think they make the breed seem worse, but i think they also actually make the breed worse in reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-26-2008 4:16 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-26-2008 10:42 PM PMOC has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 85 (458046)
02-26-2008 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by PMOC
02-26-2008 7:44 PM


So you honestly believe that banning the breed and spading the bitches is the answer?
It just seems so 'genocide' to me.
I don't think that that is the answer to the problem. The breed, in and of itself, is worth salvaging. Pit Bulls are not bad dogs, they aren't going to "snap", and they have a bad rap.
Lets not over-react.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by PMOC, posted 02-26-2008 7:44 PM PMOC has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by PMOC, posted 02-26-2008 10:51 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
PMOC
Member (Idle past 5755 days)
Posts: 41
From: USA
Joined: 06-01-2007


Message 83 of 85 (458048)
02-26-2008 10:51 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by New Cat's Eye
02-26-2008 10:42 PM


I don't really get the outrage. All domestic dogs are the same species, aren't they?
Genocidal? Who is overreacting?
IMO, enough of them are genetically bad to justify not perpetuating the breed. We will just have to agree to disagree on that point. No big deal.
I don't think you're going to convince me and I'm not going to convince you. Since I've pretty much exhausted my position (to the effort i'm willing to put into this) I'm going to sign off on this thread. I look forward to chatting with you in others.
Edited by PMOC, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-26-2008 10:42 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-27-2008 12:48 AM PMOC has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 84 of 85 (458058)
02-27-2008 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by PMOC
02-26-2008 10:51 PM


I don't really get the outrage. All domestic dogs are the same species, aren't they?
you say this like 'species' means something important to me.
Species is a human convention.
Are dogs and wolves the same species? They can interbreed, but their Latin name is different.
No need to reply to that, it is off topic. I just wanted to clarify my presumptions so you can stop doing it for me
Genocidal? Who is overreacting?
You are, remember?
Pit Bulls are not bad enough to warrant their genocide.
What makes you think that they are?
IMO, enough of them are genetically bad to justify not perpetuating the breed.
I'm going to go ahead and let you win this one by Goodwin's Law (
(which reminds me of Gaydolf Titler anyone see The Oscars?)

We will just have to agree to disagree on that point. No big deal.
But let the lurkers recall that YOU are the nazi
I don't think you're going to convince me and I'm not going to convince you.
Never can, never will.
Since I've pretty much exhausted my position (to the effort i'm willing to put into this) I'm going to sign off on this thread.
Pussy. That's also clear evidence that your wrong.
I look forward to chatting with you in others.
Ditto.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by PMOC, posted 02-26-2008 10:51 PM PMOC has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 613 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 85 of 85 (458106)
02-27-2008 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by FliesOnly
02-26-2008 8:16 AM


quote:
My wife and I both did graduate work in Animal Behavior. Not that we're canine experts...but we do understand quite a bit more about behavior than you average joe on the street. Our dog is very social and "meets" other dogs quite often. He has never shown any aggression, and likely never will.
My dog also is very nonagressive to other dogs. She loves to play with them, and she is very loving and lovable. She also is 7/8th's pit bull, 1/8th boxer. She is also totally intimidated by the new cat.. and is quite the wimp there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by FliesOnly, posted 02-26-2008 8:16 AM FliesOnly has not replied

  
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