Do some Christians need prejudice?

And thanks for that. Accepting homosexuality does not make someone not a Christian. In fact, if you have an example of Christ mentioning homosexuality I would love to see it - in another thread. I'm guessing you don't realize that simply using the derogatory label "homos" would be deemed hate-speech by many people.You say you aren't using hate-speech, that you speak the "truth". One man's "truth" is another man's hate-speech. Some people speak what they believe to be "true", like "all people with black skin are lazy" or "all Baptist men beat their wives". These things aren't true, they are rooted in ignorance and prejudice.I believe that all of your statements regarding homosexuality come from similar ignorance and prejudice. You've made some blanket statements about homosexuality without providing any evidence whatsoever.Please, take Asgara's advice and enter a discussion in one of the homosexuality threads, or start your own (or at least read existing ones). I'll be happy to continue our discussion there, but this will likely be my last response to you in this thread.I think you can learn a lot, and perhaps you'll realize why your statements appear so hateful.

(If this is not on-track, please advise.)For thousands of years, people have used religion to validate hatred and prejudice. Sects have and continue to use religious belief as an excuse for one sect’s violence toward another sect.The Bible alleges accounts of the Israelite’s genocidal attacks on other inhabitants of Canaan on orders reportedly emanating from the Hebrew god.A recent example of attempted validation of racial hatred is the Christian Identity or British-Israelism movement. This white supremacist movement believes Anglo-Saxons are the direct descendants and inheritors of the original Israelites, that the Jews are descendants of Satan and Eve, and that African-Americans are mud people without souls.
Christian Identity - religious cults, sects and movementsThe so-called Christian Identity movement is full of Ku Klux Klanners and neo-Nazis parading about under banners that incorporate Christian symbols while their skin-headed troopers spew abominable, hateful rhetoric and encourage physical violence toward fellow humans.While Christian Identity hate mongers are an extreme example of the phenomena I think this thread intends to explore, the original question could be phrased as what is it that apparently requires some people to incorporate prejudice and hatred into what they promote as Christianity? Is this the question, or not?

It sometimes amazes me how people can claim to follow Christ's teachings yet hate their fellow humans so much.Last semester, there was a group of people who came to our university holding signs that said "this school is going to hell..." and "god hates fags..."Last semester, my school ordered many vacuum cleaners from a company that was based in Sweden. Sweden, as you may not know, has legalized same sex marriage.Unfortunately, this is a public institution so there was nothing anyone could do. The students just ignored them, though.

Abshalom asks:

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While Christian Identity hate mongers are an extreme example of the phenomena I think this thread intends to explore, the original question could be phrased as what is it that apparently requires some people to incorporate prejudice and hatred into what they promote as Christianity? Is this the question, or not?

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Of course it isn't the precise question I asked (I was looking for any of Jesus' teachings that would validate bigotry and prejudice), but I didn't intend that the scope of the thread would be so narrow as to leave out any other considerations of religous prejudice. Your question is a good one and it follows logically from mine.

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Keep America Safe AND Free!

Berberry, I’m not sure yet whether I can cite any teachings attributed to Jesus that the "Christian Identity" movement interprets as validating racism; however, one of their beliefs is "that the Commandment which forbids adultery does not refer to extra-marital sexual relationships. Rather, it forbids 'racial adultery'; i.e. inter-racial marriages. Their reasoning is that the 10th Commandment which forbids coveting one's neighbor's possessions already bans adultery since one of those possessions is the neighbor's wife; and God would not have repeated Himself. http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/.../identity.htmlNow, with wacky postulations like that, it’s reasonable to assume they have twisted some of the teachings of Jesus to suit their bent reasoning as well.

In Message #49, Berberry clarifies that he is "looking for any of Jesus' teachings that would validate bigotry and prejudice."While trying to find something along those lines, I ran across this, which seems to indicate extensive religious tolerance:"An argument started among the disciples (who after Jesus' passing are supposed to extend Christianity to the world) as to which of them would be the greatest. Jesus, knowing their thoughts, took a little child and had him stand beside him. Then he said to them, 'Whoever welcomes this little child in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. For he who is least among you all -- he is the greatest.'""Master," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us.""Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."Luke 9:46-50

I often quote Shakespeare when such points come up: From The Merchant of Venice. I had to look it up to be sure; the words are spoken by the character Antonio. The sentiment is quite accurate, as you've illustrated.The point is that there is no injustice or crime that can't be justified by something in the bible. Even genocide can be sanctioned if you twist the words just right.I think it'd be a bit harder to justify intolerance and bigotry if one is restricted to using only the direct words of Jesus as quoted in the gospels. I could be wrong, though.

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Keep America Safe AND Free!

Berberry:Of course there will always be some wacko who will stretch an interpretation to justify his demented fancy. Like someone claiming that Jesus's statement that the entire Law remains intact justifies the ethnic cleansing of Canaan. But then we would know we are dealing with a psychopathic cretin.

Abshalom writes me:

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Of course there will always be some wacko who will stretch an interpretation to justify his demented fancy.

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Indeed. It's happening today in ways that seem far more benign that the Christian Identity movement. Like the right-wing Christian opposition to the new video of We Are Family, starring scores of kids cartoon characters, the Sesame Street characters, Bill Cosby, Diana Ross, the two brothers who do Blue's Clues, et al. Conservative Christians are up-in-arms because the video teaches tolerance.Imagine! Tolerance! A controversial concept in Christian la-la land, all because of the bigotry and hatred people find in their bibles.

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Keep America Safe AND Free!

While I agree that the current uproar over We Are Family is pretty disgusting, I'm not as convinced that it is actually religious in nature as much as a general symptom of the dumbing of America. In this and some other cases the medium is a mixture of religion, politics and commercialism.People like Jerry Falwell, Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker and Gene Scott are simply using religion in the same way that Billy Sunday and all the other hucksters did. They have the ultimate commercial venture, selling a product with an even lower product cost than M$ Windows. They sell confrontation.You can see this in today's Talk Radio venue as well as Fox News. It is the same coin as the Televangelists. There are no discussions, no debates, rather what is delivered is the verbal equivalent of the WWF.I would ask all of the folk out there to invest a little time in examining some earlier interview format programs. Two past ones in particular, the one hosted by Steve Allen and the one hosted by Dick Cavett; and the current Charley Rose program. In each of these the host plays a minor but significant part as moderator but the goal is to get the guest to fully express his or her opinion.Contrast those with any of the current crop, Rush, Montel, Springer, Stern or any of the others. What you find today is that the concept is to outshout the guest unless the guest is following some predetermined party line. The majority of the content comes not from the guest but from the hosts.Religion has always been used as a medium for hate propaganda. It is a viable medium because the audience is preconditioned to accepting the position presented. It is AUTHORITY writ large. But that is not an indictment of religion but an indictment of bigots and shallow thinkers.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

From Jar's message just above:"What you find today is that the concept is to outshout the guest unless the guest is following some predetermined party line. The majority of the content comes not from the guest but from the hosts."Absolutely right! And this would make an excellent topic to spin off from in the Coffee House.Back during Christmas 2004, a lady hosted Chris Matthews' Hard Ball on MSNBC. Matthews is one of those blithering talking heads that dominates his air time with endless rephrasings on his questions all structured to answer his own questions or force his guests into a "yes" or "no" simplistic response to his hogwash rather than giving the viewer potentially an educated view into the subject. When a guest tries to give anything more than a two-sentence response, Matthews cuts him or her off with "oh, sorry, we've run out of time."The lady who substituted for Matthews over Christmas illicited more thoughtfull responses out of her guests in each four-minute segment between commercial breaks than Matthews does in an entire show. What was her name anyway? And why doesn't she have her own show?But that all belongs in that other thread, right?This message has been edited by Abshalom, 01-22-2005 10:18 AM

First, I would have to say that Jesus came to teach not to judge. He took prostitutes and allowed them to repent and He judged them not. It was not His reason for being. But believing (as I do) that the God and Jesus are one then we could say that Jesus would agree with the way God handled things back in the Old Testament times. God killed tens of thousands in mear minutes when they did things like break the rules of the temple, marry with people of another tribe (non-believing tribe or pagan tribes if you will). So it is hard to say that Jesus wouldn't do those things as well it's just that in His time that isn't what was needed. Teaching was needed. The appostles thought Jesus was going to fight a battle and He let them know that wasn't His purpose.
To single in on christians is a joke. Not saying that they aren't prejudice, because we are. We all are. You and everyone reading this is in some way or another. So I wouldn't worry to much about it. It is when we judge people based on our prejudice that it begins to cause problems. Lets not forget to mention for fairness sake that there are thousands of christians today being killed for their views. The muslim world isn't to kind to them. -Z

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. Lets not forget to mention for fairness sake that there are thousands of christians today being killed for their views. The muslim world isn't to kind to them.

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Really? Its for their religious views, rather than as aiders and abettors of colonialism of imperialism, say? Huh.{Fixed quote box - AM}This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 01-25-2005 23:01 AM

According to what I have heard. Yes. Their "religious" beliefs are very firm and strict on how to treat those who do not share their beliefs. The extremist take it further and chop off the heads of christians and non believers. But we are the bad guys according to you? We imperialists that help out every country any time a tradgedy occurs. How often do you see anyone give "majority chrisitan" America a helping hand when 911 or huricaines or earthquakes happen. If you are not willing to take you anti America bias out of your thinking then we have nothing else to discuss. -Z

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According to what I have heard. Yes.

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What you have heard is hate-filled propaganda made to justify a war.

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The extremist take it further and chop off the heads of christians and non believers.

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While America bombs whole cities of Muslims and anyone who doesn't behave the way America wants - which usually means offering up the entire economy to be looted by American business.

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We imperialists that help out every country any time a tradgedy occurs.

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Thats completely fictitious - America is a very poor contributor tyo global aid, and is the prime mover behind the maintance of cruel loan repayment regimes. Furthermore, America routinely intervenes to suppress democracy.

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How often do you see anyone give "majority chrisitan" America a helping hand when 911 or huricaines or earthquakes happen.

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All the time - such as the sympathy demonstrations after 9/11 that occurred in multiple Islamic cities. As for hurricanes et al, America generally refuses such aid, which is not unreasonable given it is the richest country on the planet.

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If you are not willing to take you anti America bias out of your thinking then we have nothing else to discuss.

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Adressing the real world is a requirem,tn for productive discussion. I am not obliged in any sense to conform to your delusional view of the American agressor state.