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Author Topic:   Re: The Supernatural, does it really exist?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 16 of 36 (95356)
03-28-2004 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Buzsaw
03-26-2004 7:11 PM


You don't photograph a spirit because a spirit/ghost/demon is not flesh and blood, nor matter as we know it for that matter. You photograph it and you get nothing because it's spirit -- not in our dimension.
Since human eyes are essentially cameras, how do you expect these ghosts to be seen at all, then?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Buzsaw, posted 03-26-2004 7:11 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by 1.61803, posted 03-29-2004 12:07 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 17 of 36 (95518)
03-29-2004 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by crashfrog
03-28-2004 11:35 AM


Crash, dont you know the demons and spirits only show themselves in real time?? The photographs will not show up cuz dey aint got no matter to em..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by crashfrog, posted 03-28-2004 11:35 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Denesha
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 36 (95581)
03-29-2004 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Matthew
03-26-2004 11:11 PM


Re: demons
My car died yesterday while a fossil field session.
Sad day. Two hypothesis:
1 All cars should die one day or another. It's just bad luck.
2 A supernatural force try to keep me out of fossils collecting.
A rational and a spiritual answer. Both answer won't change anything, as I will certainly replace this car (later). This is concrete reality. My belief is relegated to a non vital background role.
It (belief) doesn't really matter in this case.
Denesha

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Matthew, posted 03-26-2004 11:11 PM Matthew has not replied

  
Stephen ben Yeshua
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 36 (95798)
03-29-2004 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Denesha
03-24-2004 9:03 AM


Re:
Denesha,
In good science, you have to take as evidence in support of an idea that which is consistent with the idea. Since demons, by definition, influence the evidence, you have to take this into account when you look at the evidence. To demand evidence that cannot exist if the idea is true, is to a priori reject the idea, unscientifically, or dogmatically.
If you do not take time to think through the above statement, the hypothesis that the God, Jehovah, has created and is running this universe predicts that you will remain forever deluded.
Lawyers want to win their case. Scientists want to know what is true. Which are you?
Stephen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Denesha, posted 03-24-2004 9:03 AM Denesha has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Denesha, posted 03-30-2004 2:57 AM Stephen ben Yeshua has replied

  
Denesha
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 36 (95847)
03-30-2004 2:57 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Stephen ben Yeshua
03-29-2004 11:34 PM


Re:
Dear Stephen,
I love your style.
According to you, I'm still searching false evidences of the false truth. You assume that the real truth is provided by your belief.
I'm not sure that I'm wasting my time and if you don't mind, I'll seek and study a bit more fossils for the few years to come.
I'll be glad to have the same discussion in ten or twenty years.
Denesha

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 03-29-2004 11:34 PM Stephen ben Yeshua has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 03-30-2004 3:41 AM Denesha has replied

  
Stephen ben Yeshua
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 36 (95857)
03-30-2004 3:41 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Denesha
03-30-2004 2:57 AM


Re:
Denesha,
Fossils are good. Often hidden, and so finding them is something that you can do with or without their creator's help. You therefore have a great opportunity, as you look for fossils, to pray for guidance, or not. Do an experiment. Pray one week, not another, keep track of the finds. As long as your agenda is the truth about God, and decent, in the sense that if you discover He's "out there" and responsible for the neat fossils you are finding, you will treat Him with the love and respect He deserves, you ought to get good evidence for or against His reality.
Stephen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Denesha, posted 03-30-2004 2:57 AM Denesha has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Denesha, posted 03-30-2004 3:51 AM Stephen ben Yeshua has not replied

  
Denesha
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 36 (95860)
03-30-2004 3:51 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Stephen ben Yeshua
03-30-2004 3:41 AM


Re:
Ok Stephen,
You have not convinced me but I'll test your method.
This is a minimal effort and doesn't cost anything really.
Denesha

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 03-30-2004 3:41 AM Stephen ben Yeshua has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by 1.61803, posted 04-01-2004 12:10 PM Denesha has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 23 of 36 (96622)
04-01-2004 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Denesha
03-30-2004 3:51 AM


Re:
Realize of course that if the finds are minimal on prayer weeks it will be because you did not REALLY believe them to be effective. If the finds are abundant on prayer weeks it will be because God exist and has granted your prayers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Denesha, posted 03-30-2004 3:51 AM Denesha has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Denesha, posted 04-01-2004 12:35 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
Denesha
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 36 (96628)
04-01-2004 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by 1.61803
04-01-2004 12:10 PM


Re:
Dear 1.61803,
Are you trying to influence me?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by 1.61803, posted 04-01-2004 12:10 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by 1.61803, posted 04-01-2004 3:03 PM Denesha has not replied
 Message 26 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 04-02-2004 12:08 AM Denesha has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 25 of 36 (96658)
04-01-2004 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Denesha
04-01-2004 12:35 PM


Re:
No.. just anticipating the next conversation after your experiment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Denesha, posted 04-01-2004 12:35 PM Denesha has not replied

  
Stephen ben Yeshua
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 36 (96883)
04-02-2004 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Denesha
04-01-2004 12:35 PM


Re: ad hoc
Denesha,
Don't be discouraged by 1.6etc. He/She doesn't yet understand how ad hoc explanations influence (or not) the plausibility of ideas. If you do the prayer experiment, and "things get worse" you will have to explain this effect of your proceedure, and then test that explanation. If there is no detectable difference, you can with a clear conscience forget the whole thing. The ball, if there is a ball, is in God's court. Check out "the best scientific method" in the "is it science?" section.
Beware of scientific philosophical nihilists, that hate God so much that they will deny that we have any hope of finding the truth, just in case it turns out that God is true.
Stephen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Denesha, posted 04-01-2004 12:35 PM Denesha has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by 1.61803, posted 04-02-2004 12:11 AM Stephen ben Yeshua has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 27 of 36 (96887)
04-02-2004 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Stephen ben Yeshua
04-02-2004 12:08 AM


Re: ad hoc
I am a de-nihlist, I am in denile of my nihlism thank you very much!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 04-02-2004 12:08 AM Stephen ben Yeshua has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 04-02-2004 12:20 AM 1.61803 has replied

  
Stephen ben Yeshua
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 36 (96894)
04-02-2004 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by 1.61803
04-02-2004 12:11 AM


Re: ad hoc
1.61803
denile?
Is this a river in Egypt? I hope so. Moses got his start there.
S.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by 1.61803, posted 04-02-2004 12:11 AM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by 1.61803, posted 04-02-2004 12:23 AM Stephen ben Yeshua has not replied
 Message 30 by Abshalom, posted 04-05-2004 6:36 PM Stephen ben Yeshua has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 29 of 36 (96898)
04-02-2004 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Stephen ben Yeshua
04-02-2004 12:20 AM


Re: ad hoc
Let he who is without spelling errors cast the first stone

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 04-02-2004 12:20 AM Stephen ben Yeshua has not replied

  
Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 36 (97963)
04-05-2004 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Stephen ben Yeshua
04-02-2004 12:20 AM


Re: ad hoc
Moses got his start in denile? Where'd you reed that, Stephen?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 04-02-2004 12:20 AM Stephen ben Yeshua has not replied

  
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