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Author | Topic: Hey Cobra Snake (kyle) | |||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
I can't comment about whether Fred was properly notified or not, but I find much to agree with in the second half of your post. Dull, dispassionate debates aren't very interesting, but the zings and fireworks of a Fred-style debate often end up completely obscuring any serious points. Hence, while I'm inclined to yield a bit of rein to spirited debaters like Scott and Fred, they'd still have to tone it down quite a bit.
--PercyEvC Forum Administrator
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derwood Member (Idle past 1876 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: That is certainly not how it appears to the interested layman. But I agree - it contains almost no scientific information and what such information there is is for the most part used incorrectly. quote: Mean? quote: There is a little thing called context. My message titled "I have pointed out your incompetence again"? A reply to Fred's message titled: "I have refuted you yet again" A message which contained the following text: "May the handwaving begin!" Hence my reply: "Let the aspersion casting and obfuscation begin!" As for my 'signature' ("Your intellectual and scientific superior"), that is a goog-natured dig. You see, Fred often signed his messages with things like "Your idol", so I signed mine with something that was at least grounded in reality.But enough about that. quote: I think my CV speaks for itself. I'm no Nobel Laureate, but then, I don't claim or imply that I am (or should be)... Mean-spirited? How's this:"You had no hope because your claims were thoroughly bogus." "You need to go to the gym more, its a better workout than waving your hands at your computer." "...don't read anything more into this than what it is, common courtesy, even to someone who is a complete bonehead)." Those are the MILD ones. Fred reaps what he sows. Of course, like all 'Christian' creationists, Fred justifies his nature with biblical lore: "The Bible *does* justify various methods of communicatingwith morons. Some need to be told they are morons. You qualify as one such individual. " Yes, I will watch my tone... quote: I am not sure where this odd belief that individuals with legitimate academic credentials are supposed to be able to suppress their emotions came from. Why are such individuals supposed to sit back and take such verbal abuse? Do nothing when their characters are impugned? Some - those with much more patience than I - can sit back and take it and not respond in kind. I can't. Maybe I should have my meal card stamped "NO DESSERT"? quote: He was not too busy to post his 'questions' in the first place. He was not too busy to request that I specifically address his post.Was he? quote: You do? Is that why you praised Fred's site for being "insulting"? Well, enough of this.
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
SLPx writes: This is a good point, but if I can offer a suggestion, I felt the problem I had following the Haldane debate was due to two problems:
Just one opinion. --Percy [This message has been edited by Percipient, 05-31-2002]
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derwood Member (Idle past 1876 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Percipient:
[b] SLPx writes: This is a good point, but if I can offer a suggestion, I felt the problem I had following the Haldane debate was due to two problems:
Just one opinion. --Percy[/QUOTE] I would agree. And I especially like the fact that you refer to me as "XXX". [This message has been edited by Percipient, 05-31-2002]
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
quote: Whatever are you talking about! Oh, well, caught once again forgetting the argument to my emacs macros. --Percy [This message has been edited by Percipient, 06-03-2002]
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Cobra_snake Inactive Member |
"That is certainly not how it appears to the interested layman."
Fred even tells the visitors that his site is not, for the most part, about documenting serious scientific evidence. "There is a little thing called context." Well, I didn't know about the context. Now that I do, your message doesn't seem so bad. However: "Of course, it is far more informative to read my relaity based response to Williams first laughabvle attempts at 'refutation"" "I will be tearing down Williams pseudoscinetific gibberish in a day or two." "I suspect thart any actual reply will consist of aspersion casting, insults, and a continued insistence that Haldnae's dilemma is real and unsolved. Thats all he can do." I think it seems fairly obvious that you have been the creator of some mud-slinging and mean-spirited comments. Percy also seems to agree with my assesment here, so maybe you should argue with him instead. "I think my CV speaks for itself. I'm no Nobel Laureate, but then, I don't claim or imply that I am (or should be)... Mean-spirited? How's this:" I think it is fairly obvious that both you and Fred are guilty of unneccesary slander. However, you WERE the one that brought it up: "Apparently, you don't see Williams for what he is, nor have you seen him in action on the internet, where he makes the most obnoxious, rude 'evo' look like Mr.Rogers." If you are going to accuse Williams of rude behavior, I would think that you would make sure your own behavior was in check. As it stands, both of you seem equally guilty and neither should be pointing fingers at the other- rather you should try to make peace as well as you can. "I am not sure where this odd belief that individuals with legitimate academic credentials are supposed to be able to suppress their emotions came from." It seems to me that being "intellectual" would mean that you would generally try to avoid ad hominem attacks and other logical fallacies, especially before accusing your opponent of the same. "Is that why you praised Fred's site for being "insulting"?" You're right- "insulting" was the wrong word. What I meant was "teasing" in a playful sort of way, but that sounds kinda gay, don't you think?
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derwood Member (Idle past 1876 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Maybe so, but he does (or did, anyway) post to various groups about how he has 'disproven' this or that from time to time. For example: Fred wrote in this thread, "New series at "Evolution, a Fairy Tale for Grownups", in the newsgroup alt.fan.rush.limbaugh: "Regarding Genetics, I wrote an article that provides overwhelming evidence we could not have evolved from a common ancestor with a chimp. Note that a leading Geneticist in personal correspondence has confirmed the math and acknowledged its a "serious problem" for the theory."
quote: It might seem that way if one were to only read the pertinent threads here on this forum, I agree. Though it is pointless, I could link to dozens of posts by Fred elsewhere demonstrating that I am doing nothing but carrying on a tradition that Fred began long ago.
quote: What is slanderous about that? I didn't write the above followed or preceeded by "I am the nicest guy on the net, but this Fred guy...". quote: I have tried to do so on a number of occasions. See Fred's 'moron' comments to see what gets returned. Even when he gets conciliatory, he cannot help by make comments such as this, in response to a doctorate-holding geneticist from Stanford, emphasis mine:****************************************************************** S: That's why he retracted the argument and did not use it again. As for his other arguments against ReMine, you are soundly beaten. For instance, you have yet to answer the question: how many beneficial mutations need to be fixed to account for the divergence of humans and chimps? Fred:LOL! I am soundly beaten because I can’t prove that 1667 is not enough to account for human evolution? I will repeat this to you. You have to be a complete fool to believe such a small difference can account for the difference between chimp and man. I’m sorry, but I really do believe this and I’m not goin to mince words. You have to be a complete moron to hold such an indefensible position. ************************************************* So there you have it - if you do not completely agree with Fred Williams, creationist electrical engineer, then you are obviously a complete fool and/or a complete moron.But you are right - an 'intellectual' should be able to respond to repeated statements like that without responding in kind. quote: I do not see where I claimed to be an "intellectual". Please point out some of these 'logical fallacies' that I have employed. Again, I never wrtote explicitly or implicitly anything remotely like "I am a nice guy, but Fred Williams is a rude so-and-so." Had I done so, then your position would be warranted. quote: I don't know - what does 'gay' sound like?
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
SLPx quoting Fred Williams: This wouldn't be an acceptable style of debate here. ------------------ --EvC Forum Administrator
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