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Author Topic:   Jonah and the whale-It happened! - Granted as True - Now the Theological Implications
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 1 of 10 (88057)
02-23-2004 1:37 AM


Re: the "Jonah and the whale - It happened!" topic.
Quoting truthover, from http://EvC Forum: Jonah and the whale - It happened! -->EvC Forum: Jonah and the whale - It happened!
quote:
I think the fact that Kendemeyer never reacted to my summation of his argument ("if it's scientifically possible, and the Bible said it, then it happened") is proof enough that I summed his argument up. In a bizarre maneuver, he went back and completely changed his OP, but the point of the OP is still exactly the same: "scientifically, it's not impossible."
and
quote:
That's why he didn't get it, Brian, when you said he should study theology. Only one question is able to get into his brain, "Is it scientifically possible?" Because, in his mind, if it is, then his case is rested: it happened.
and
quote:
I pointed out this is how he was arguing. You pointed out that's not good enough for anyone. Moose tried to grant him his "scientifically possible" argument and then tell him that doesn't prove it happened, and he still couldn't figure it out.
I did grant him the "scientifically possible" argument, and then went on to say that I didn't care one way or the other if it actually did happen. Theologically, I can accept that Jonah did indeed survive his swallowing, via the help of God. I was truly puzzled by Kendemeyer's seeming determination to keep God's hand out of the considerations.
So, making the statement "Jonah was indeed swallowed by a whale, and through the grace of God, did survive said swallowing" a given, I ask, what are the theological implications of the "Jonah and the Whale" story?
Moose

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by truthlover, posted 02-23-2004 4:12 AM Minnemooseus has not replied
 Message 4 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-25-2004 3:13 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4059 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 2 of 10 (88075)
02-23-2004 4:12 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Minnemooseus
02-23-2004 1:37 AM


So, making the statement "Jonah was indeed swallowed by a whale, and through the grace of God, did survive said swallowing" a given, I ask, what are the theological implications of the "Jonah and the Whale" story?
Gosh, aren't the theological implications staggering? First, there's a God, assuming the above statement is true, or the grace of God couldn't happen. Second, the point of surviving the swallowing was to force Jonah to go tell the Ninevites to repent or die (sorry for the blunt summation of his message), so God has a moral code that he enforces.
That's a pretty huge start, I think.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Minnemooseus, posted 02-23-2004 1:37 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Dr Jack, posted 02-23-2004 6:58 AM truthlover has not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 3 of 10 (88100)
02-23-2004 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by truthlover
02-23-2004 4:12 AM


Which all has rather interesting connotations for God's apparent attitude towards freewill, I would think?

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3048 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 4 of 10 (88638)
02-25-2004 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Minnemooseus
02-23-2004 1:37 AM


The Book of Jonah doesn't say he was swallowed by a whale.
The hebrew says he was swallowed by a large fish specially prepared by God. It could of been a whale, but the text just says it was a large fish.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Minnemooseus, posted 02-23-2004 1:37 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by MisterOpus1, posted 02-25-2004 3:23 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

  
MisterOpus1
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 10 (88640)
02-25-2004 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Cold Foreign Object
02-25-2004 3:13 PM


Matthew 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly;
Whom shall we believe?
And furthermore, does it really matter if it was a fish or whale?

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kendemyer
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 10 (88947)
02-26-2004 10:14 PM


jonah and whale - Why the book of jonah is accurate
TO All:
Here is why I believe that the Book of Jonah is true based on my study of the archaeology, history, and science issues:
http://EvC Forum: Jonah and the whale - It happened! -->EvC Forum: Jonah and the whale - It happened!
Here are the main theological implications from what I have read from various theologians and what I have gleaned from the Jonah account:
1. God cares for men's eternal and earthly concerns more than all his own representatives on earth do at certain points in history. Jonah had to be compelled to go to Ninevah.
2. God gives some free choice (the Ninevites chose to repent although it was based on some compulsion in that God's justice demanded judgment soon) but not total freedom because Jonah was somewhat drafted and was not a true volunteer and the threat of judgment for wrong doing was hanging over their people of Ninevah's heads.
3. God about the gentiles even before Christ arrived on the scene. He sent a prophet to them so they would repent.
4. God comes to man first rather than men coming to God. God extends the invitation. Jonah came to Ninevah. The people of Ninevah were not seeking God it appears. As the New testament says:
1Ti 2:3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Also, the New Testament declares in many cases that God comes to the sinner and extends the invitation and man the rebel does not seek after God.
5. Revival does not always last. The people of Nineveh went back to their heathen ways it appears according the Bible. This would of course, imply human freedom although some Calvinist would take issue with this.
6. Sometimes the representatives of God can have a pity party when they do not get their own way (read last chapter of Jonah), but God has higher purposes and more compassion than men (read last chapter of Jonah).
7. You can run from God but you cannot hide. Jonah could not hide from God. God can intervene in nature in order to make those who rebel accountable (the seas, sea creature swallowing Jonah, etc).
[This message has been edited by kendemyer, 03-26-2004]

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by AdminAsgara, posted 02-26-2004 11:37 PM kendemyer has not replied
 Message 8 by Minnemooseus, posted 02-27-2004 12:07 AM kendemyer has not replied

  
AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2303 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 7 of 10 (88961)
02-26-2004 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by kendemyer
02-26-2004 10:14 PM


Re: jonah and whale
Gee Ken..are you talking about the closing of your Jonah thread? If there is a problem with that, please take it to the suggestions board.

AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

This message is a reply to:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 8 of 10 (88968)
02-27-2004 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by kendemyer
02-26-2004 10:14 PM


Re: jonah and whale
I'll try to get back further, later, but for now I must point out:
You are addressing a rather long ramble to someone who tends to have an attention span of about 3 sentences. I prize clarity and conciseness. Is there such a summary for your message?
Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by kendemyer, posted 02-26-2004 10:14 PM kendemyer has not replied

  
kendemyer
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 10 (92963)
03-17-2004 4:48 PM


Jonah and whale
TO All:
I may be adding additional information to this string at a later point.
Sincerely,
Ken
[This message has been edited by kendemyer, 03-26-2004]

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by AdminAsgara, posted 03-17-2004 5:33 PM kendemyer has not replied

  
AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2303 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 10 of 10 (92986)
03-17-2004 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by kendemyer
03-17-2004 4:48 PM


Re: Jonah and whale
Hi Ken,
I have a question into Admin concerning just where you are allowed to post. There is some question as to whether or not Admin lifted my restriction of you to the FFA when he lifted your suspension. I would greatly appreciate if you would hold on posting out of your FFA threads until this has been made clear.

AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by kendemyer, posted 03-17-2004 4:48 PM kendemyer has not replied

  
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