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Author Topic:   Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 334 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1816 of 2073 (878963)
07-07-2020 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1815 by Tangle
07-07-2020 5:48 PM


Tangle writes:
Why are you here Kleinman? I write scientific papers for scientific publications - nothing to do with what we discuss here - the very last thing I would do is take my reseach to a place like this.
You in the fish evolves into mammals clique really have trouble paying attention. Read my explanation to vimesey in Message 1811 why I'm here. And why should anyone believe that you write scientific papers? I put links to my papers. You just babble. The problem is that the fish evolves into mammals clique don't understand how to do high school level mathematics.
Tangle writes:
You're a no-hope crank aren't you? Can't get heard where you should get heard so you come to places like this and troll?
I'll get heard on this paper on Markov process mathematics models of DNA evolution because the model I've formulated predicts real empirical examples of evolution. I won't bungle the math like the fish evolve into mammals clique has.
Tangle writes:
Oddly, there are people here that could help you - obviously you have some training and ability but equally obviously you've lost your way. If you actually listened to your critics you might make some headway.
Do you mean those critics who think that your ancestors spontaneously occurred in some medieval primordial soup and evolved into people who claim they are scientists without ever proving it? Even someone who isn't a farmer can smell that pile of manure. I just look at the fish evolve into mammals clique's mathematics, find the blunders and correct the math. And I do want to thank PaulK's muddling in this discussion. It helped me make headway in writing the conclusion for my next paper.
Tangle writes:
Don't bother replying.
No bother. In fact, all the squealing we are getting from the fish evolves into mammals clique confirms that the target has been hit. But we would all like to see one of your papers. Has it been published in a fossil tea-leaf reading journal or has it been published in a real scientific journal where they do hard mathematical science?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1815 by Tangle, posted 07-07-2020 5:48 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1817 of 2073 (878970)
07-08-2020 2:58 AM


A troll and a crank. I'm out.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

Replies to this message:
 Message 1818 by Kleinman, posted 07-08-2020 6:33 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 334 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1818 of 2073 (878971)
07-08-2020 6:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1817 by Tangle
07-08-2020 2:58 AM


Tangle writes:
A troll and a crank. I'm out.
What makes you think you were ever in? All you have done is bragged about something you won't prove and squeal about the physics and mathematics of evolution which you don't understand. You are the troll and a crank and you harm people with your ignorance of evolution and deceive naive school children with your mythology. ir sin dios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1817 by Tangle, posted 07-08-2020 2:58 AM Tangle has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1819 of 2073 (879018)
07-09-2020 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1716 by Kleinman
07-01-2020 10:35 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Hey, AZPaul3, have you figured out what random means? Is it somewhere between 1 and indeterminant?
You missed out on the discussion, again. Either that or you are lying because, well, that's what cracked pots do.
Message 16
The question I answered, correctly BTW, was not about random anything.
So, why don't you tell us how large the population must be for these drug-resistant variants to appear?
From a minimum of 1 to an indeterminate maximum. And you don't understand why that is do you.
You didn't ask about probabilities. You were asking, though in your intellectually challenged way you didn't notice, what sized population is required for some mutation to have occurred.
If you knew anything about fish-to-mammal evolution and the mathematics of DNA you would know that all it takes is one organism for there to be a mutation. And in an indeterminately large population such mutations are possible in any of the members at any time.
I was telling you to go fuck your probabilities.
You have continually lied about the referent in my answer. Since you hold yourself to be a smart person I can only conclude you did so deliberately.
You are not just a crackpot, Kleinman, you are a deliberate deceiver. You speak with forked tongue.
You are a liar, Kleinmen.
As for my use of the word aether, which seemed to throw you, it is quite a useful concept in discussions with the intellectually vacuous such as yourself. It fits your headspace and personality.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1716 by Kleinman, posted 07-01-2020 10:35 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1820 by Kleinman, posted 07-10-2020 9:56 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 334 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1820 of 2073 (879030)
07-10-2020 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1819 by AZPaul3
07-09-2020 11:33 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
Hey, AZPaul3, have you figured out what random means? Is it somewhere between 1 and indeterminant?
AZPaul3 writes:
You missed out on the discussion, again. Either that or you are lying because, well, that's what cracked pots do.
Message 16
The question I answered, correctly BTW, was not about random anything.
We all know that you know nothing about stochastic processes. That's the mathematics of random events for those living in AZPaul3land. AZPaul3, stay away from Las Vegas before you lose everything you have. But I do thank you for helping me to write the conclusion to my next paper. When are you going to use Markov Chain mathematics and DNA phylogenetics to prove that you descended from bananas?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1819 by AZPaul3, posted 07-09-2020 11:33 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1821 by AZPaul3, posted 07-10-2020 12:54 PM Kleinman has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1821 of 2073 (879038)
07-10-2020 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1820 by Kleinman
07-10-2020 9:56 AM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
We all know that you know nothing about stochastic processes.
Of course, Mr Math Man, it's quite apparent from the reception of your ideas in the community that *you* certainly don't understand the math involved.
When you come to conclusions quite opposite of known reality then your math and your methods are junk being poured from a cracked pot.
When are you going to use Markov Chain mathematics and DNA phylogenetics to prove that you descended from bananas?
I don't have to.
Others, using much more accurate math and methods than you, have already shown how we all descended (recently) from common ancestors with monkeys and (less recently) from common ancestors with fish and (way back) from common ancestors with all plants, and, yes, Kleinman, that would include bananas which are classified in the kingdom Plantae which is a sister kingdom to Animalia, both of which shared common ancestry with Eukaryota.
Don't think too hard on it, Kleinman. You're so enamored with your Markov chain calculations and your errant explanations of the Kishony and Lenski experiments, we wouldn't want you to strain your brain on reality.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1820 by Kleinman, posted 07-10-2020 9:56 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1822 by Kleinman, posted 07-10-2020 2:45 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 334 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1822 of 2073 (879051)
07-10-2020 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1821 by AZPaul3
07-10-2020 12:54 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
We all know that you know nothing about stochastic processes.
AZPaul3 writes:
Of course, Mr Math Man, it's quite apparent from the reception of your ideas in the community that *you* certainly don't understand the math involved.
If the fish-to-mammal aficionados had gotten something out of their dumbbell math courses perhaps it would get a better reception in the fossil tea-leaf journals. On the other hand, this math can be understood by any high school student who passed an introductory probability theory course and this may be the reason why the fish-to-mammal aficionados' refuse to accept this math. The Kishony and Lenski experiments (and all the real, measurable, and repeatable examples of DNA evolution) and their associated mathematical behavior reveals the fish-to-mammal aficionados delusions. AZPaul3, you have blindly bought into an irrational belief system. This is the biggest scientific blunder since the flat-earth argument.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1821 by AZPaul3, posted 07-10-2020 12:54 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1823 by AZPaul3, posted 07-10-2020 3:12 PM Kleinman has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1823 of 2073 (879054)
07-10-2020 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1822 by Kleinman
07-10-2020 2:45 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
On the other hand, this math can be understood by any high school student who passed an introductory probability theory course and this may be the reason why the fish-to-mammal aficionados' refuse to accept this math.
You're the only one on the planet to know this. Everyone else has been wrong, deluded, recruited into a conspiracy.
You do know Eleanor Roosevelt used to fly around the White House, don't you? How about the mushrooms on Mars, you know about those, yes?
You keep piling it higher and deeper.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1822 by Kleinman, posted 07-10-2020 2:45 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1826 by Kleinman, posted 07-10-2020 4:37 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 1824 of 2073 (879056)
07-10-2020 3:42 PM


too bad you guys didn't have a camera way back when. otherwise you construct a narrative around physical evidence, and the narrative is always a story and has an agenda. let me know when you find that beautiful bean footage from 400 million BC

Replies to this message:
 Message 1825 by vimesey, posted 07-10-2020 4:04 PM Trump won has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(2)
Message 1825 of 2073 (879060)
07-10-2020 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1824 by Trump won
07-10-2020 3:42 PM


And your photos of Jesus walking on water would be where...?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1824 by Trump won, posted 07-10-2020 3:42 PM Trump won has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 334 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1826 of 2073 (879061)
07-10-2020 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1823 by AZPaul3
07-10-2020 3:12 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
On the other hand, this math can be understood by any high school student who passed an introductory probability theory course and this may be the reason why the fish-to-mammal aficionados' refuse to accept this math.
AZPaul3 writes:
You're the only one on the planet to know this. Everyone else has been wrong, deluded, recruited into a conspiracy.
Me and the peer-reviewers, editor and publishers of my papers, the librarians at the National Library of Medicine where you can find my papers and why don't you check out the people at the bottom of this link where I was asked to explain this math to people like you that haven't even studied high school level mathematics:
Page not found - Stats & Data Science Views
I don't expect the fish-to-mammal aficionados to understand this math.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1823 by AZPaul3, posted 07-10-2020 3:12 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1827 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-10-2020 5:06 PM Kleinman has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 1827 of 2073 (879064)
07-10-2020 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1826 by Kleinman
07-10-2020 4:37 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
kleinman writes:
the librarians at the National Library of Medicine where you can find my papers
Really? The librarians reviewed and accepted your papers?
kleinman writes:
I was asked to explain this math to people like you that haven't even studied high school level mathematics:
Ahh, so you were asked to explain it to middle schoolers.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1826 by Kleinman, posted 07-10-2020 4:37 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1828 by Kleinman, posted 07-10-2020 6:31 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 334 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1828 of 2073 (879067)
07-10-2020 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1827 by Tanypteryx
07-10-2020 5:06 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
the librarians at the National Library of Medicine where you can find my papers
Tanypteryx writes:
Really? The librarians reviewed and accepted your papers?
The basic science and mathematics of random mutation and natural selection - PubMed
The mathematics of random mutation and natural selection for multiple simultaneous selection pressures and the evolution of antimicrobial drug resistance - PMC
Random recombination and evolution of drug resistance - PubMed
You simpleton fish-to-mammal aficionados really need to expand your reading list beyond fossil tea-leaf reading journals and Mad magazine if you want to understand the physics and mathematics of evolution. People are being harmed by your stupidity.
Kleinman writes:
I was asked to explain this math to people like you that haven't even studied high school level mathematics:
Tanypteryx writes:
Ahh, so you were asked to explain it to middle schoolers.
And the mathematically incompetent such as the fish-to-mammal aficionados such as you. Clearly, the explanation went over your head. It appears we need a high schooler to explain this math to you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1827 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-10-2020 5:06 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1829 by kjsimons, posted 07-10-2020 9:21 PM Kleinman has replied
 Message 1830 by Straggler, posted 07-11-2020 7:20 AM Kleinman has replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


(1)
Message 1829 of 2073 (879068)
07-10-2020 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1828 by Kleinman
07-10-2020 6:31 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
A mathematical model does not trump reality. For many years it was claimed that bumble bee couldn't fly as the models didn't support it. Recently, newly created models uncovered how they could fly. Your models don't reflect reality and therefore can be dismissed as can the the previous models that said bumble bee couldn't fly. They map is not the territory, reality trumps mathematical models.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1828 by Kleinman, posted 07-10-2020 6:31 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1833 by Kleinman, posted 07-11-2020 9:30 AM kjsimons has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 1830 of 2073 (879084)
07-11-2020 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1828 by Kleinman
07-10-2020 6:31 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Still here? Still declaring everyone here too stupid to appreciate your standing on the shoulders of giant scientific breakthrough.
And now proclaiming that various academic institutions accept your claim that you have falsified common descent. I mean do they know that’s what they have signed up to?
We await the Evolution Falsified headlines with bated breath. I’m sure the National Library of Medicine will be the first to sign up to that particular conclusion......
Or maybe your much (self) vaunted papers don’t falsify common descent in the way you think they do. Maybe you should explicitly point out that particular extrapolated conclusion to the National Library of Medicine and let us know how they react. I’d love to know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1828 by Kleinman, posted 07-10-2020 6:31 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1831 by Kleinman, posted 07-11-2020 9:14 AM Straggler has replied

  
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