Its all about false definitions and straw men!

Ok, I decided to sit down and watch Hovind's sermons. (that is what they are.) You know, I must say he is a polished speaker, but a poor debater. He makes up definitions to set up straw men attacks. I also found out out about what I am "supposed" to believe as a person who believes in evolution. I must say, he may be a good public speaker, but a really poor mind reader.
Additionally, I must say, I am glad I am an atheist. According to what he says, you aren't a christian if you beleive in evolution. Wow! Here I thought a Christian was someone who believed in Christ. Guess that isn't enough. He seemed to have a personal distaste for mormons in particular. Guess this puts all Catholics on the spot as well, since the Catholic church awknoldges TOE as a valid scientific theory ( they got burnt bad enough on the whole Copernicu/Galileo thing, and have wisened up.)
Now, I have yet to get into his "science" so far, since his first seminar so far is almost all simple sermonizing with a few funny quips and of course quite a few false analogies and alot of straw man arguements. I have yet to watch all of the first clip, only the first 30 minutes so far, and have realized this man either has no clue about the scientific theories he is trying to debunk, or is flat out lying.
At one point (14 minutes into it.) he jumps onto the big bang theory (which is NOT biological evolution) and basic astrophysics. He says we have never seen a star being born, only die (supernova). However, any astronomer (ametuer or proffesional) can easily find you an array of stars in various stages of celestial birth, life , and death! Of course, he fails to mention that. Secondly, he says that the big bang could only have produced hyrdogen and helium (quite possibly true), but since we have over 92 elements ( actually there are quite a few more, but many must be created in a lab to seen since they decay too fast) the big bang theory must be wrong. Never mind that fusion can create up to iron and still produce energy (of course at diminishing returns) and that the heavier elements are created in Supernova and like celestial events.
Please, creationist, tell me this man is a crackpot and not a pillar of the creationist movement! Many of you here have much better theories (perhaps incorrect, but at least you try and find rational explanations : ) . I believe my favorite assertion so far was that the DEVIL created the big bang theory! Ok, now I don't know if I should be amused or insulted. Perhaps that means the Devil is a physicist. Never did trust that Stephen Hawking guy! *sigh*
(ps accord to Hovind, TOE covers almost all of astrophysics, geology, abiognesis, most of physics, and of course biology. Now here I though evolution was about the change of species over time due to natural selection. Stupid me.)

I really think that the creationist arguement is hurt by drivel like this. I am willing to spot creationists the benifit of the doubt that all of creationist arguements are not predicated on the teaching of men like Hovind. TrueCreation, for example, seems to put forth a great amount of thought in his replies, and is a far better speaker for creationism than the antics of Hovind. (Doesn't mean I agree with out TC, but I do respect your input.)

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Originally posted by darwin storm
(ps accord to Hovind, TOE covers almost all of astrophysics, geology, abiognesis, most of physics, and of course biology.

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Creationists lump all these together because they imagine a Guy in the Sky who ordered up (or manufactured, depending on where you read) a complete universe. That is the religious tradition of cosmogenesis which has existed for thousands of years.
For most of that time it traveled hand in hand with classical cosmology. The majority of creationists are unaware that both the cosmogony and the cosmology have evolved a lot since The Book of Genesis was first published.In the beginning Earth was at the center of the universe, and that made it very important. Yes? The creator must think we are very special!That universe was infinitesimally small by today's standard. Before the time of Aristotle, the sun orbited earth at an altitude of about a hundred miles, the moon somewhat higher, and the stars a bit higher than the moon. To those of religious persuasion, stars were the shining life-force of departed souls. Planets, a unique kind of star, were special agents of Guy in the Sky and were commissioned to wander, keep an eye on the earth and determine the fates of men.Aristotle, like the authors of Genesis, believed that everything had arisen from a primordial chaos of dark water. The universe (heavens, earth, & sea) were made out of and ensconced within that water (why do you think the sky is blue?). Saint Peter echoes this philosophy (2 Peter 3:15)Your Copernicus, among others, has rung the bell. The spoiled children of creationism don't want to join the modern church, don't want to study their bitter lessons, don't want to believe that ...Recess is over.[edited for content]

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[This message has been edited by doctrbill, 03-22-2002]

Hovind is a complete idiot. If I were a creationist, i'd be embarrassed to have him associated with belief.
His "degree" is not from any accredited organization. In fact, it's from some person's house in new england.

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Originally posted by Xombie:
Hovind is a complete idiot. If I were a creationist, i'd be embarrassed to have him associated with belief.
His "degree" is not from any accredited organization. In fact, it's from some person's house in new england.

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JM: Actually it's in Colorado.CheersJoe Meert

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Originally posted by Joe Meert:
JM: Actually it's in Colorado.

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Cheers

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Joe Meert

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Yeah...from a barnyard university in Colorado...dont remember the exact name or what the exact degree is...Still,that doesn't change the fact that he's an idiot

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Originally posted by LudvanB:
Yeah...from a barnyard university in Colorado...dont remember the exact name or what the exact degree is...Still,that doesn't change the fact that he's an idiot

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Christian Education, Patriot University

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Originally posted by LudvanB:
Yeah...from a barnyard university in Colorado...dont remember the exact name or what the exact degree is...Still,that doesn't change the fact that he's an idiot

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Joe:Christian Education, Patriot University

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Perhaps we could deemphasize the Colorado connection here? We are already trying to shake our "cowtown" image, but having to associate with Kent Hovind and Patriot U? well, that's just too much!

Well, I like Colorado . Course, I did my graduate work in Texas, I don't think that many texans do like your state . Many states have things, institutions or people of whom they are not proud, here are a few: Cal-Many of the creationit institutes including the oxymonically named ICR; MD-hell we produced Alan Keys, a primo whack job if there ever was one; Tx- the Majority whip, need I say more; Mass-Teddy (I double as a swimming instructor) Kennedy. I think that this is enough to make my point.As to Hovind, the man is almost as big a nut as Carl Baugh, another make believe researcher with a fake degree.------------------
"Chance favors the prepared mind." L. Pasteur
Taz

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dr_Tazimus_maximus:As to Hovind, the man is almost as big a nut as Carl Baugh, another make believe researcher with a fake degree.[/B][/QUOTE]AND A TV SHOW!!CheersJoe Meert

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Originally posted by Joe Meert:
AND A TV SHOW!!

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You have got to be KIDDING ME------------------
"Chance favors the prepared mind." L. Pasteur
Taz

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Originally posted by Dr_Tazimus_maximus:

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Originally posted by Joe Meert:
AND A TV SHOW!!

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You have got to be KIDDING ME

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Nope, it's part of the DirectTv basic package, you get Carl Baugh a couple of times per week.CheersJoe Meert

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Originally posted by Joe Meert:
Nope, it's part of the DirectTv basic package, you get Carl Baugh a couple of times per week.

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Cheers

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Joe Meert

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What channel is that? do you get it on cable? coz I could do with a good laugh...

Just curious, who is Carl Bough?

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Originally posted by Darwin Storm:
Just curious, who is Carl Bough?

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Carl Baugh is another creationist "Ph.D." who really is a fake, I.E. the man has not performed a thesis and went to one of these degree mills where no research is performed. He is probably most famous, or infamous, for the Paluxy Dinosaur/Man track garbage where he claims to have tracks demonstrating man and dinosuars walking together. He also claims that, pre-flood, the earth was surrounded by spheres of metallic hydrogen.The man is a complete loon.------------------
"Chance favors the prepared mind." L. Pasteur
Taz