A Christian State.

i personally thing a christian stae would be indistinguishable from and islamist state not to mention that people found to be committing adultery would be jailed. did i mention adultery includes premarital sex? i think your ideas of treatment programs under a christian system are inaccurate. christians are notorious for being against all manner of prevention programs. if the baptists were in control, alcohol would be banned. nothing like restricting the right to do honest work for a whole day. censorship is the greatest evil. *cough*bullshit*cough* you do know who the leaders of the christian right are and how much money they make and for whom they support taxes? if you think a christian society would be more equitable, you are sadly mistaken. remember. god rewards the righteous with earthly blessings. see above. the poor are that way because they did something wrong. that's not really so bad... WTF ARE YOU KIDDING? mmmm dark ages. yeah. pray and your pms will go away. um. god hates fags ring a bell? they'd be fucking executed. (or executed for fucking.) clearly. it's getting that way now. whatever. there's always sweden.i'd rather not live in a religious state, thanks. but then again the arabs invented zero in spite of christian fears of arithmetic being "magic"... i think i'd rather live under an ottoman state.

its in there exactly for the reasons you post,because its bad when religion and goverment mix, even worse when the goverment is run by religions
i'm sorry but if a religion runs a goverment would it allow people to worship a different god? or practice things not taught exactly by that religion?
i would say the answer is no, it would be even worse for people who would disbelieve in god/swho knows they may slip in a law allowing burning for not believing or allowing people the right to murder someone who doesn't share this belief (doubtful in this time, but who knows?) no they would probibly be quarinted so kids don't get the gays, then later brain washed to be straightthe other things would be terrible too that is till the christian identity people get involved then they kick the ass of everyone else and they have all the non-whites deported

In a christian state you'd have the most extensive Jail system known to man. How in the world would you support the jail system for putting adulters, drunkards, cursers etc?How would you even prosecute adultery drunkards and cursers without an excessivly large police force, that becomes oppresive because it needs to track your every move to make sure you aren't doing bad things. You propose people reporting each other for crimes they see or hear about? If thats the case you've created an orwellian state where no one can trust another person and parents can't even trust their own children.How is abuse of the system prevented in a theocratic system? What way is the theocratic system maintained? Do you have a state sponsored Internal Affairs? What occurs when that arm of the government becomes politicized?These are the kinds of things that a christian state would have to deal with. How to enforce the laws at in an equitable way. How can you punish the most backwater adulter living in the country as equally as you can punish a prominent citizen that commits adultery?

The United States already has the most extensive jail system known to man. As the Christian right (what an oxymoron, IMHO not very Christian and hardly right) gains more power, the society becomes more Orwellian, as in domestic spying. Like the Supreme Court?Also, the pseudo-Christian state that is promoted by those in power in the US requires continuous human sacrifice (in never-ending wars where there is no intention of winning or losing) in order to retain power through fear and appeals to patriotism. Maybe the US is moving towards a fundamentalist Aztec state.This message has been edited by anglagard, 04-15-2006 06:40 PM

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What would the impact be on education, health, the economy and personal freedom be if a xian fundemenatlist party gained a similar level of control over the state apperatus?

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As someone vehemently against religion having any role in politics I feel this would have a universally detrimental effect on the country's developement and would cause it to potentially lag behind other more secular countries.

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Some people intimate that Utah is the closest thing we have to a theocracy in our country.Page not found - Suite 101"The LDS church proselytizes relentlessly. If it fails to convert you in this life, it will try to get you in the next one by baptizing the dead. (Even Holocaust victims have not been spared this posthumous rite.) A financial and political powerhouse, the LDS church not only dominates most of Utah's social service agencies, but also the government, the public schools, and the media. It even runs the shopping malls. As a result, the church shapes the life of everyone who lives in Utah, Mormon or not."There's good stuff on this on the internet for all interested googlers.

hm, wonder why that posted twice.
'scuse me! This message has been edited by DorfMan, 04-16-2006 09:45 PM

A great many bible thumper types try to argue for governmental endorsement and promotion of christianity in varying fora by claiming that the U.S. is a "christian nation." Now, I don't want to plumb the depths of their ignorance of American history, but whenever I stumble across this argument it starts me to thinking. If the U.S. were a "christian nation," what would our laws be like? I'm probably somewhat hampered in my musings by my admitted shallow understanding of chrisianity, but I've come to a few conclusions that I'd like to present for discussion and feedback, either as to the accuracy of my understanding of christianity or how certain tenets of christianity might be applied to the laws of a "christian nation."I begin with what seems to be a self-evident assumption, that the laws of a "christian nation" would reflect the teachings of Christ. Feel free to explain why that would not be the case if you think I am in error.One of the things that the bible says Christ taught was to turn the other cheek, literally. Would compliance with this philosophy mean that a "christian nation" would have no need for a military?What about criminal laws? How is punishing a criminal consistent with turning the other cheek? It also seems, at least in part, to run afoul of the bible where it says, "'Vengeance is mine,' sayeth the Lord."I certainly would not expect that a "christian nation" would have any laws requiring adherence to god's laws. If god leaves us free us to follow his laws or not as we see fit to choose, how could a "christian nation" require one to do so?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

But what does it mean to say we are a Christian nation?If it is just a description of the culture (as distinct from the religious beliefs), then it is arguably correct.

As far as what they mean, I really have no idea. The phrase is most often trotted out, however, in the context of some sort of governmental endorsement or recognition of christianity. In particular, for example, they often say it in the context of a ten commandments display brouhaha as a justification, claiming that the commandments are the basis for our laws.Now, I'm not particularly interested in disabusing them of that notion. I'm more interested in exploring exactly what our laws would be like if they were based on the teaching of christ. I made a few suggestions in my previous post. Does anyone have any other ideas?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

I'll grant that fundies like to use the phrase as a way of gaining support for some sort of theocracy. But I think others use it in a more reasonable manner. Fundies tend to follow the teaching of Paul, not the teaching of Jesus.

I think history tells us about what religious laws would be like: supression of science for a start. It's already happening with the 'debate' over creationism. Medical technology, history cultural diversity would all be supressed.When ever you have a law that cannot be changed (it is so written) it will eventually lead to no good. If the laws that allowed slavery where not changed (and the christian church allowed slavery - it says to the effect that you can keep slaves as long as they are from another nation (I think that is in Leviticus somewhere)) we would still have slavery.The fundemental flaw with religious laws is that they are 'right' and every other type of law that conflicts with it is 'wrong'.If a country startd to view it's own laws as pertaining to everyone then wars and invasions follow. Look to the Crusades for a physical war, look to christian missionaries for a psychological war.Christian laws in the model of Paul would be pretty punitive. Jesus (as I recall) was not into laws that much. I don't think you could have a 'Jesus Model' of Laws, NWR got it right I think. Funfies would use a 'Paul Model' (pretty agressive).

I've never believed in Hell, but this list comes pretty close to my perception of how it can be created.

No, history doesn't tell us a thing about what the laws would be like under my hypothesis, because, as you and others mention, the fundies, and their ilk, are the ones who were responsible in the past and pushing for it now.That's why I posed the somewhat different question about what laws based on the teachings of christ would be like. Anyone care to take a stab at it?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

You would have to go through the bible and pick out the types of things Jesus pontificated about and define them as Laws.For example, I'm led to believe Jesus said that we must do unto others as we would be done unto; this may mean that if we murder, we would be executed.But he also is said to have said that we should turn the other cheek. It would become a crime to act in self defence.Apparently it is easier to push a camel through a needle eye than get to xian heaven if you are rich. This could indicate that you may not have a xian burial if you have x amount of money when you die.Can you see where I'm going with this? Any theocratic legal system is at best a utopian pipe dream and at worst (as you point out) prey to fundies and other right wing extremistist.Thank god I live in the UK where fundies are not given tv stations.

If there really was a nation that actually tried to follow the teachings of Christ, the closest form of government would be communisim. The maxim "From each according to their ability; to each according to their need" would be the law of the land. There would be universal health care; Jesus healed the sick wherever He went, and there would be food for all; afterall Jesus fed the multitude and even made the beer run at the wedding.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion