We youth at EvC are in Moral Decline

smoking is a bad and addictive habit that can have consequences for ones health...but immoral? why.Drinking (not alcoholism) can have long term health advantages...so why is that immoral?smoking pot...why is that immoral?sex...don't want to spoil the surprise for you but its real good...even when its bad..its good......but maybe you could explain why you consider it immoral.Though a bit sarcastic in parts don't take anything I said as an attack on you. I like Dan Carrol are wondering why you attribute immorality to each of the examples you list.

Well, of course that's what he tells you. I've met a bunch of adults of about the same age, and they all say "everybody was doing the drugs, except for me." If that's the case, who was doing all the drugs?Other than that it appears you have a pretty simple morality: bad = immoral = bad. Not uncommon at your age, though.

You know, let me make this a little clearer.Last night, my girlfriend and I went to a bar with some friends. We split a couple of pitchers, and I went through about half a pack of cigarettes. At one point my girlfriend snuck out back for a joint. At the end of the night, we went home, had sex, and went to sleep.In other words, between us we hit every single one of the "immoral" items on your list there.I'd like to know exactly what we did that was morally wrong, and why it was morally wrong.Whether you did it knowingly or not, if you're going to take a slam at me I'd appreciate it if you'd back it up.

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Phew! What a relief. That you took so long to comment had me worried. I went over what I'd said a hundred times and began to think that I had offended you.

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Glad you're back.

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If I'm offended, I have no probelem telling someone, don't worry.Beyond that, among friends I'm pretty hard to offend.I just don't get to every thread every day. I've also been out out computer contact for the last few days.Not to worry!

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In some ideal world, maybe we could compare the effect of a loving, stable, single parent home with the effect of a loving, stable traditional couple home.

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I'd like to point out that your use of the word "traditional" in the above is not accurate.The idea of a mother and a father and their children as representative of a "traditional" family setting is really mythical. It is something that has never been the norm of human society but was sold to us as the "one, true, natural" family structure in the West starting less than 100 years ago I'd estimate.In Victorian times we used to live in large extended families, and the same is true in frontier and farming families during that time and previous.A farmer's wife wasn't just taking care of the kids all day while he was in the field; she had to tend to the running of the household, the large kitchen garden that fed them, and the preserving of the harvest to sustain them over the winter. Often a grandmother or older siblings or maiden aunts lived there and took care of the babies while the mother worked all day.The idea that it's "natural" for a simgle woman and a single man to raise a bunch of children all by themselves is anything but.

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sex...don't want to spoil the surprise for you but its real good...even when its bad..its good..

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Uh, I have to say that bad sex is just bad...

I think the question is: who cares?
if you want to smoke pot or drink beer or smoke ciggarettes, that's your business. that is, as long as its in a safe area where you won't be able to inflict damage on others, i.e. dui.as to the single parent issue and the teen pregnancy, well, i think we need to stop preaching abstinence in the schools and start telling people where they can get condoms and the morning after pill.[This message has been edited by xwhydoyoureyesx, 08-19-2003]

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I think the question is: who cares?

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Apparently a hell of a lot of people care. The many elected officials who care are of great importance, but lets not forget the injustice and misery which can be inflicted by the many citizens who care.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

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Uh, I have to say that bad sex is just bad...

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This is why we must educate our nations youth on how to have good sex.THINK OF THE CHILDREN.

I knew this. I look forward to living like this, which wasn't very possible in the portions of America I've lived in, but is happening where I am now.Are you just objecting to my use of the word "traditional"? This is the second time this has been pointed out to me. Is it just because of how I'm saying things, or does it have an application to my general point?If you're just objecting to my use of the word "traditional," then I stand corrected. If it applies to my general point, I'm missing what you're trying to tell me.

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Are you just objecting to my use of the word "traditional"? This is the second time this has been pointed out to me. Is it just because of how I'm saying things, or does it have an application to my general point?

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Well, in my post I was objecting to your use of the word "traditional" with regards to families in your posts. You seem to imply that a father and a mother with children, the so-called "nuclear family", was "traditional", or "the norm".Truthfully, it puzzled me that you said this because I know your own chosen living situation is much closer to the actual traditional family arrangement.It also puzzles me that, despite your own living arrangement in which lots of various adults, not just the mother and the father, participate in the upbringing and care of the children in your community, you still insist that to have the the birth mother and birth father be the primary parenters is gravely important.Maybe I am misunderstanding you?

Peter responds to me:

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I can drink a couple of glasses of wine without any noticeable
effect, but am aware that my reaction times will be affected.

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Um, if your reaction times are affected, then there is a noticeble effect by definition.The problem is that alcohol also affects your reasoning abilities. You don't think you're affected, but those around you can tell the difference.

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I wouldn't call that drunk though.

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I would.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Dan Carroll writes:

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Last night, my girlfriend and I went to a bar with some friends. We split a couple of pitchers, and I went through about half a pack of cigarettes. At one point my girlfriend snuck out back for a joint. At the end of the night, we went home, had sex, and went to sleep.

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Question: Did you drive yourselves or did you find alternative means of transportation where you were not at the helm of a large, moving vehicle while under the influence of intoxicating substances and putting other people at risk?Did you secure the consent of the people around you who had to breathe your smoke and thus put their own health at risk?If you want to drink, smoke, do drugs, and have sex, you go right ahead.Do try to keep other people out of it, though. I would say that it is immoral to put other people in danger as a result of your pleasures.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

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Did you drive yourselves or did you find alternative means of transportation where you were not at the helm of a large, moving vehicle while under the influence of intoxicating substances and putting other people at risk?

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Walked home.

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Did you secure the consent of the people around you who had to breathe your smoke and thus put their own health at risk?

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It was a bar. People know before they go in that the place is going to be full of smoke, and they choose to go anyway. As for those immediately at my table, I was with friends who know me, know that I smoke, and I know from prior experience they don't mind.

Dan Carroll responds to me:

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Walked home.

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Good.

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Did you secure the consent of the people around you who had to breathe your smoke and thus put their own health at risk?

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It was a bar.

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So?Do you know of any non-smoking bars? You had mentioned in another thread a scenario about becoming destitute and having to take up prostitution to make a living. Don't you think the need to make a living has an effect on who's your bartender? People don't always have the free choice to avoid those who are smoking.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!