Old Laws Still Valid?

Jer 31:31-34; Ez 36:26,27

other parts of the bible depict people who are justified by the law. and even christian theology holds that christ himself was perfect. is that not an example we should follow?faced with paul saying no man can be perfect, and the other parts of the bible that say we can (and even tells us how), and parts that describe god's graces, how can we accept both? clearly they are contradictory.the reason i do not chose pauline christianity here is that it seems to be rather clearly and profoundly misrepresenting the law. the law is not a burden that we carry under punishment. the law is not something that charges us as being sinful. if one actually, i dunno, reads all of that boring stuff in exodus and leviticus, it's quite plainly obvious that most of the law is a system for atoning for sins. the law itself justifies man with god -- that's what it's for.edit: or rather, i don't think paul HIMSELF is neccessarily misrepresenting the law. the verse above clearly says the law is failed system for atonement. i might even agree to that statement, but this is not the way most christians understand the theological basis for their religion. eh eh not so fast there!

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Mat 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

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sounds like jesus thinks christianity will a source of great conflict in families. and in my experience, he's absolutely right. i dunno, i'd be willing to bet that the christian guilt complex is a leading factor in suicide cases for teenagers. but hey, that's still better than martyrdom, which christ goes on to talk about in the verses after the one above.Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.

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sometimes i suspect that satan himself had more hand in writing the bible than god. no, i think that's a reasonably healthy attitude. strangely, i kind of feel the same way. i don't care much for thoughts of the afterlife... actually, i'm kind of scared by the prospects of eternity. i don't want to live for ever.anyways, this stuff's pretty off-topic now, but it's been interesting.

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i don't really mind being identified as jewish, it's just kind of odd. i think faith and works must go hand-in-hand, so it's got to be a point of emphasis thing. as told by most christians, it doesn't even make sense. our faith saves us, regardless of our deeds -- but when someone does something truly abhorent in the name of christ, they proclaim them to be "not true christians." clearly, the deeds must matter somehow.outside of christianity, "faith" is a word that is used to describe fidelity, such as in marriages. actions matter there -- one is not faithful to their wife if he sleeps around. perhaps we should think about faith as inclusive of actions. yes. there are instances of the dead rising earlier in the bible, though. the most prominent one at jesus's own command.also, it's not much of a sacrifice if you get it back, is it? just saying. it just seems kind of odd to me. how does god's death give us hope? shouldn't we have hope because god is alive? in a rather prominent volumne of the torah, god delivers an entire nation, en masse, from suffering, according to his promise -- he didn't have to die to do that. why should god need to kill himself to satisfy himself, thus saving us from himself? it just... it doesn't make sense to me anymore. i can't find a better term for myself than "christian" and i'm not entirely sure what i believe anymore. perhaps i am one of those people that faced with the bible has lost their faith, and i am simply in denial. i'm not atheist; i still believe in god. and i believe in this god.but why can't someone who follows the teachings of one called "christ" be called "christian?" it's not my fault the fundamental precepts of what has become modern christianity are a little more dogmatic than this. jesus walks around calling himself "son of man." that literally means "born of men," and is a prophetic title. and in all fairness, it doesn't seem to be a big point in the gospels. it's told in luke and matthew, but mark and john simply ignore it or fail to include it. and matthew takes a verse from isaiah horrendously out of context and mistranslates the important word... well, as a side note, when people say "the law and the prophets" they are usually referring to two sections of the hebrew bible (which go by those names, torah and nevi'im). but if one reads the messianic prophecies, many seem to have little to do with jesus. most read a lot like, well, what revelation says will happen in the second coming of christ. that's the messiah the prophets seem to be predicting.jesus himself, on the other hand, largely seems to be trying to provide focus and clarity to judaism at the time. revitalize it with purpose and intent, over letter and loophole.anyways, merry christmas!

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Christos Razdajetsja!I have not seen you around awhile, but nice to have you always.Since it is Christmas I will hold off writing. I just got a program with the Bible in Hebrew and Greek, so hopefully it will be interesting.

This is a topic that takes a considerable amount of Biblical knowledge to understand. The reason being is that there has been so much confusion spread about this topic.Jesus did not called the law evil or deny the prophets. Jesus was there when the law was given to Moses on Mt.Sinai and thus is the reason for the law in the first place. The law was given to Israel so that they would keep themselves holy in the eyes of the LORD and be pure enough to fulfill the prophecy of Gen.3:15 that first tells us that the Messiah would be born of a woman. Well, this woman cannot be a whore and prostitution was a violation of the law of Israel and thus the punishment was death to those who had sex before marriage. The reason for this is that God had to be the Father of the manifestation of what would be God in the flesh--Jesus Christ/Yeshua Messiah.The law was there to preserve the nation that would carry the seed of the Messiah. Jesus came and fulfilled this mission and now we are no longer condemned by the law because Jesus become the curse for our sins. We are saved by our faith, and by this faith we naturally grow in the fruits of the spirit and works come natural; but faith is the seal of salvation sense the Holy Spirit is the sealer(Eph.1:13). The Holy Spirit is the teacher and instructor. The law is still holy, but it no longer has the power to condemn us if we walk in the faith of Christ.The New Testament covers this issue in greater depth and most people can understand Paul (for the exception of Seventh Day Adventists).

Psalma 19,7 The law of the LORD is perfect, restoring the soul; The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever; The judgments of the LORD are true; they are righteous altogether.The ultimate goal during our days of time is for the Lord to write His law upon our hearts through the new birth (Eze 36:26-27, John 3:3-7). In eternity when the Lord gives us our resurrection bodies, we will leave behind all our imprefections and enjoy Him forever.Blessings

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

What in the world does any of that stuff have to do with the thread or topic?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Maybe you just don't get it?Since God's laws are perfect, His laws are still valid, no matter whether they are old or new?Now do you get it?

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

So stoning folk that work on the Sabbath is okay.Tell me, can I just do it on my own or should I call all the neighbors over?Should we have a BBQ at the event and if so, who should pay for it?Our church recently held a football game and during half time the Priest held a service. Many of the people taking communion, including the Priest were unclean since they handled the football. What actions should we take?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Maybe you should start with this one and work your way into the others.Deut 6:5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might."Then you should be able to handle this one:Col 2:16-17 "Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."To whom much is given, much is required. God required much more from His people in the OT in regards to honoring the Sabbath day. The Israelites themselves agreed to these commandments from God and vowed to keep them. God still takes it very seriously when we make vows to God and agree to obey His commandments. It's much better to allow God to write His laws on our hearts so that we do His will by nature rather than by duty.Edited by John 10:10, : added clarification

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

Nice jabberwocky but you did not answer any of my questions.One problem is that all too often Christians simply spout platitudes. Unfortunately, that also means they stop thinking at that point and don't even realize that the platitude is simply spin with no real meaning.Thus we get stuff like "God's Law is perfect", or "It's much better to allow God to write His laws on our hearts so that we do His will by nature rather than by duty."What the hell does that mean? Write Laws on ones heart? Better to do His will by nature rather than duty?Those are just buzz phrases, designed to sound important but really having no meaning whatsoever other than allowing someone to think they have come across an answer.Edited by jar, : and---> an

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Maybe if you were "born again" as Jesus declared in John 3:3-7, you would know what it means to allow God to write His laws upon your heart (Heb 8:10 buzz phrase)."FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE."As for God's law being perfect, these are God's words, not mine (Psalms 19:7).

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

Yet more platitudes designed to stop thinking. Now you proclaim that I am not "Born Again". Another jabberwocky.That is what is so wrong with so much of Christianity, all that exists is some shell of platitudes with no substance, no reason, no value, no worth.Instead of actually answering questions, all you and so many Christians seem able to do is to retreat into the realm of glib catch phrases and quotemining.It is as though a requirement of Christianity was to check the brains at the door.Christianity is NOT the Bible. It is not quotemining. It is not the glib parody that is the Hallmark of the Televangelist.The Devil quotes scripture.Christianity is action, doing.Christianity is helping someone reach the package on the high shelf.Christianity is kneeling down to talk to kids so you are at their eye level.Christianity is a smile and a wave when the man picks up the trash.Christianity is opening doors for folk and helping unload their shopping cart and taking the shopping carts back to the collection area.Christianity is trying to do what is right, trying not to do what is wrong, honestly looking at your performance and when you fail, admitting it and trying to do better next time.Christianity is NOT words, it is doing.Edited by jar, : more appalin spallin

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

If you are "born again" as Jesus declares in John 3:3-7, you would not be offended that I brought up the subject. Since you seem to be offended, the shoe seems to fit.You are right. Christianity is not the Bible, but it is Christ living within the lives of His "born again" children - "Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Col 1:27).Christianity is action, doing. Let us walk in the good works God has prepared for us.Eph 2:8-10 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10