I hate to explain a "joke"
If that was a joke then you simply have a very bad sense of humor. The discussion was capitalism (and oil) which you were posing Iraq as not being and the US as being... rather than both being pretty much the same system with Saddam being a corrupt guy on top over there like we have corrupt guys over here.
Then you state examples of business and say Not China. Wow, yeah, that was REALLY obvious.
You can continue to deny the reality of the hardships in Iraq under Saddam's regime while the corrupt leaders and unethical leaders of other countries siphoned the oil monies for their personal benefits.
Find me one statement where I denied the hardships under Saddam. I dares ya and I double dares ya. You see, where I might not sense sarcasm and bad jokes, you have a problem of not sensing the truth nor what people are actually saying.
it sounds like you would prefer Saddam to remain in power rather a Iraq ruled by the people.
Really? Where did you see that? I was against us putting the man in power and making sure he stayed there.
Remember that was back when Rummy and Saddam and Bush Sr was pals? That was back when his gassing of Kurds was called "necessary" by the US gov't and not an example of barbarous WMD attacks on his own citizens?
Once in power I still didn't want him there. I was NOT against the first gulf war, in fact totally behind our smashing him back, though I was scratching my head why 1) we gave him the green light to invade Kuwait in the first place, and 2) once we freed the citizens of Kuwait we returned their dictators.
In the aftermath, Saddam was a contained dictator. It would be great if he was overthrown, and the people chose their own gov't. But It was not within the bounds of international law to run in there ourselves, especially with no threat coming from him, and NO SOLID POSTWAR PLANS of what to do if we did.
It was unbelievable that we relied on a KNOWN CRIMINAL, Chalabi, and to think that he would move in to run the government smoothly. Remember the being greeted as liberators line?
It is doubly bizarre since the British ALREADY TRIED THIS LAST CENTURY. I think I already noted this to you... after the democratic chaos, Saddam was the result.
Did you see the current Intel report on Iraq? Gee if it doesn't read like the history books.
Thus I DID NOT, and still DO NOT, believe the Iraq War was necessary or right. It was a BIG MISTAKE, and DIVERTED ENERGY FROM THE WAR ON TERROR.
Now that it is over, I do not want Saddam reinstalled. I had no illusion he was a good guy. But I can tell you of at least 10,000+ innocent Iraqis who would not be dead right now at OUR HANDS, and what do THEY have to show for it?
I know some folks with KBR that worked in Iraq. They all clearly say that most of the Iraqis are grateful and love their freedom. However, some Muslims and the poor in particular have grown up seeing USA as evil
Wow, really, they must be right.
Whereas I only have a friend who IS Iraqi and returned from a 10+ year exile from Iraq with his father to Iraq in order to reunite with the family that stayed behind.
And indeed, I only helped fund a documentary on this return and focusing on Iraqis living in Postwar Iraq.
So I must be wayyyyyyyyyyy off, when I say anything on that topic, because as you say, you know some guys that work for KBR (aka Halliburton) that know some Iraqis, that told them something.
(that was called sarcasm).
The reality is that there are intelligent, educated people who were for the war, and those that were against it. The ones against are not people that irrationally hate the US, or freedom, or capitalism. I mean there are certainly some of those too, but not all or even most.
And neither does it reflect whether they liked Saddam. They can both be glad that Saddam is gone, and hate the invasion/occupation.
Imagine a country invading the US right now to throw out Bush. Even if you were against Bush, would you think that was cool? Especially if it meant your family getting blown to bits? Wouldn't that be OUR CALL? And wouldn't it make you extra mad if they then started telling you what kind of government you had to have? I mean if it's about freedom shouldn't we have a choice?
Or in their case, wouldn't THEY have a choice?
And then there are of course the people that remember that we were the ones that put Saddam where he was in the first place, then when they had a single chance at removing him in an orderly fashion (as opposed to now) we left them to hang. Now why would they want us messing with their gov't any more?
They can be quite consistent in not liking us, thinking that we were serving our own interests, and yet glad the invasion happened and that our puppet dictator is finally gone.
Oh yes, and it takes quite a bit to keep liking us when their lives have really become worse.
But yes, some in addition to being glad Saddam is gone, also like the US.
And before you start making any comments as to whether the doc is going to be some liberal tear-jerker anti-Bush thingy... no. Indeed you should remember that my friend and his dad were in exile from Iraq and could only return because it was now free.
Its a much more complex scenario than your KBR friends let on. But I suppose understanding that would actually take getting to know real people yourself and looking at the without facts wearing a Bush-Cheney reelection and KBR filter.
(that was more sarcasm... and warranted).
We can sit here and wonder whether there will be another 9-11, but innocent people in other countries also have to worry whether there will be another Iraq War. In the end, that cost a lot more people's lives.
For the sake of the Iraqi people, I HOPE things turn around.
This message has been edited by holmes, 09-17-2004 11:28 AM
holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
™ Version 4.2
