islam

If you are bored by the opinions of others and the factual background information on which those opinions are founded, what are you doing here???

Huh? I was just commenting that you reply had NOTHING at all to do with my post.You posted a long rant, that had no connection AT ALL with the point that I made.I didn't read the rant as it nothing to do with the point that I raised.

Thanks for the long boring rant - it had nothing at all to do with my post but I'm sure that someone out there will enjoy reading it.Have you considered reading what people actually have said, rather than what you think they are saying?Another poster made a slightly incomplete statement; declaring that Judiasm & Christianity do not mandate murder. The implication being partially true: that Islam mandates murder.You declared that it did not stop the sects from murdering. Perhaps you will be so kind as to cite examples of Judiasm and Christianity practicing murder.I posted two ahadith in which Muhammad specifically directed the killing of his critics. There are others, I am not in the mood to go hunt for them.Emulation of Muhammad's Sunnah is obligatory for Muslims. That makes those two murders orthodox Islamic doctrine. I find no equivilent in the Gospels. Perhaps you have found it and will point it out to us.This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 07-31-2004 01:38 PM

You still don't get my point, if you did - why ask me about the gospels? they are IRREVELENT to the point I was making!How about we start with the Jews? The christians did a good number on them.This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 07-29-2004 04:20 PM

We are critical to your extreme focus on the negative bits of Islam while completely ignoring the negative bits of for example Judaism.The teachings of Islam are partly intollerant. That's plain to see. But you are zelous in the way you present your points. Judaism isn't perfect either; the scriptures states that their God was brutal at times.And please fix your signature.

The first good reference I found is : http://www.islamreview.com/articles/lying.shtml
which mentions 3:28 and 5:89, 2:225 & 16:106I did not turn up any Islamic sites in my search. That is not exactly surprising, since the subject matter would be deemed to put Islam in a negative light.

It does not change the character of what the Christ taught.
It's simply the evil perpetration of peoples who are erroneously called Christians. You can see that?
Mohammed on the other hand, teaches exactly what Muslims do all over the planet.

Islam is engaged on a campaign of world conquest. It arrogates to itself a predestined world hegemony ordained by Allah, a destiny it must actualize by conquest.Surahs 8, 9 & 48, to which I link in my signature, clearly demonstrate the factual basis for my assertion that Islam sanctifies and mandates Jihad.Islam conquered the entire Arabian Peninsula, North Africa, the Province of Syria, Much of Eastern & Southern Europe, and a large portion of Asia. The Qur'an shows us why. The Hadith shows us how.The only limit they set is "until they submit". I like my life. I like my liberty. I wish to preserve them. Our Federal Government is obligated to defend and protect us against all enemies, foreign and domestic. The first step in that process is recognizing the true identity and nature of the enemy who is assailing us.That enemy is Islam. Not 'radicalism'. Not 'fundamentalism'. Not 'extremism'. Islam!!! Islam as defined by Allah & exemplified by Muhammad.I urge and exhort you to read "Jihad the Doctrine of Permanent War"!!!This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 07-31-2004 01:39 PM

arguably, hamas, the muslim brotherhood, the wahabbis, etc do not exemplify islam, but rather exploit it. sadaam hussein exploited islam in spite of his secularist state.the war you keep talking of is jihad which is to struggle. the greater jihad is the internal struggle of faith. the lesser jihad is to maintain islamic freedom and theocratic beliefs. this is translated through the context of arabic society (remember, they are different.) and history to include military conquest. they desire to spread their religion just like christians. culturally, arabs tend to use the sword to accomplish this... but so did the christians.

do not mention "facts" if you do not wish to find legitimate sources to back them.

It does not change the character of what the Christ taught.
It's simply the evil perpetration of peoples who are erroneously called Christians. You can see that?
Mohammed on the other hand, teaches exactly what Muslims do all over the planet.It's the "not a true scotsman!" I haven't seen that in a while, I thought it had died.

if you want an islamic source on the extremist views of jihad, look to the wahabbis. they are not shy about their beliefs of islamic supremacy. see the book "milestones". but. most mainstream muslims do not interpret the koran to mean that they should kill everyone who isn't part of the ummah. the only difference between mainstream christianity's relationship to the kkk and mainstream islam's relationship to the wahabbis is that their religion prevents them from judging the state of another person's beliefs... namely they can't say "he's not a muslim" though they can say "we are intellectually distant". christians should not say "he is not a christian", but we tend to when faced with people like klan members.you and your friend are doing exactly what i anticipated when i started the thread (and precisely what i hope to change). you are taking the actions of the few, the extreme, and applying them to people from the south pacific to morrocco to houston, texas who all believe vastly different things... as different as catholics and protestants, as different as baptists and presbyterians, some even as diffrent as mormons from jehovah's witnesses.

I am inclined to make a distinction between Rome and Christians. Rome had a long established pattern of empire building before Constantine's conversion. The continuation of empire building after conversion is not a function of Christianity, so much as a function of Rome's old habit. That is my opinion, and I have no proof to offer.If you will do a Google search for Koran, the first result listed will be a search site. Select simple search, and try these terms, in succession: kill, fight, smite, strike, terror. You will find considerable coincidence of terms, and a great deal of redundancy. You will discover what motivates Muslims to engage in "fighting in Allah's way". Jihad is not Jimmy Carter in his canoe with a copy of Hustler striving for detumescence. Jihad is killing Kufar for booty and expanding the domain of islam. Jihad is occuring in Indonesia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Nigeria, the Philippines and has even visited New York City & Washington D.C.Anyone who doubts this is cordially invited to visit:
http://www.muhammad.net/ebooks/raheeq/13.htm
The Sealed Nectar; biography of the Profit.This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 07-31-2004 01:40 PM

Islam has a system of belief. Those beliefs are establised exclusevily by one canonical book: the Qur`an. In my signature line, I link to three Surahs which specifically deal with the problem we are facing: Islamic conquest called Jihad. It is not my subjective opinion. It is not supposition. It is not malicious maundery. The words are plain, and clear in their meaning. Unless you read them for yourself, you will never come to a clear understanding of this truth.Islam has a standard of practice. That standard is called the Sunnah. The Hadith; traditions of the companions of the Profit, are the best guide we have to what Muhammad said and did. I shall now quote from and link to an orthodox Islamic site which informs us of the individual Muslim's relationship to Allah & his Messenger:By the declaration of the second part of the Muslim shahada (witness), which is "ash-hadu anna Muhammad rasool Allah" (Muhammad is the messenger of Allah), a Muslim vows to accept Muhammad (pbuh) as his role model in life. If the Qur'an is the Word of God, the model life led by Muhammad is its practical expression. That means a Muslim has to actualize the commands and prohibitions of God given in the Qur'an by following in all the areas of life, Allah's Messenger, Muhammad (pbuh).I have more where that came from. It is not necessary to produce them. The search terms I used were Muhammad model. You can replicate the search and explore the myriads of similar sites and quotations.Here is one of the relevant ahadith:Book 14, Number 2635:Narrated Anas ibn Malik:The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: I am commanded to fight with men till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is His servant and His Apostle, face our qiblah (direction of prayer), eat what we slaughter, and pray like us. When they do that, their life and property are unlawful for us except what is due to them. They will have the same rights as the Muslims have, and have the same responsibilities as the Muslims have.I urge and exhort you to read, re-read and meditate upon that ahadith!!! Many thousands of Muslims memorize it.

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Perhaps you will be so kind as to cite examples of Judiasm and Christianity practicing murder.

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pilgrim witch hunts, spanish inquisition, the fall of montezuma, kkk and their "strange fruit", GW in iraq, old testament conquests, early christian messengers, mossad assasinations, ethnic cleansing in palestine...What would you have us do by stating Islam is the enemy ???... take up arms and wipe them out before they wipe us out. Surely you are not advocating murder !!!BTW are you fluent in arabic and did you check out the jews against zionism site ???