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Author Topic:   School prayers
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 1 of 35 (102263)
04-23-2004 6:35 PM


I was reading this article by cnn and it struck me.
Should we allow prayers inside public schools? I am personally against having religion shoved down my throat, but if students want to pray in school, I don't see why not.
Now, the shady area is where we have school sponsored prayers. Although I have heard arguments from both sides, I would like to hear what believers and nonbelievers have to say why should or shouldn't we have school sponsored prayers.
The thing that makes me believe this area is shady is if we don't allow school prayers at all, then what about Christmas decorations and such? Should we really ban such traditions from our school system?

The Laminator

Replies to this message:
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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 2 of 35 (102373)
04-24-2004 5:05 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 3 of 35 (102397)
04-24-2004 11:54 AM


I think Shakespeare covered this topic well.
I find it sad that this particular issue devolved to a question of prayer in school. I have a far greater concern with what the structure and grammer say about those who are teaching the kids.
On the broader issue of Prayer in School, I oppose any specific time or moment for prayer, but I would also support things such as afterschool clubs devoted to a particular religious faith. The only restrictions I believe should be placed on such clubs would be that there be no safety violations, they must be outside normal class times and that adult supervision must be voluntary and un-compensated by the state.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by berberry, posted 04-24-2004 2:29 PM jar has replied
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 4 of 35 (102402)
04-24-2004 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
04-23-2004 6:35 PM


My favorite plan to offer to the typical vocal "put prayer back in schools!" advocate is something like this:
Required prayer, huh? Let's do that, and apportion it out to our local school population. There are 175 instructional days in a school year, so applying the proper ratios here in town we have:
* 63 days of "Sancta Maria, madre de Dos....."
* 56 days of "An' Lawrd, we jes' wanna thank yuh fer...."
* 34 days of "Our Father, which art in heaven..."
* 11 days of whatever Mormons say
* 1 Hindu prayer (?)
* 1 Native American Church peyote chant
* etc.
Somehow, though, this "fairness" approach that's so popular with evolution/creation studies isn't as popular in this context. I wonder why that is?

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berberry
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 35 (102415)
04-24-2004 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
04-24-2004 11:54 AM


Shakespeare?
jar avers:
quote:
I think Shakespeare covered this topic well.
When did Shakespeare address the issue of prayer in the schools?

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 6 of 35 (102517)
04-24-2004 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by berberry
04-24-2004 2:29 PM


Re: Shakespeare?
Much ado about nothing.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Verzem
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 35 (102617)
04-25-2004 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
04-24-2004 11:54 AM


jar,
After reading your comment:
"I have a far greater concern with what the structure and grammar say about those who are teaching the kids."
I was instantly reminded of the Christiaity is for Morons thread which I read with much amusement. Like many of those who found out that Desdemona is home-schooling her children, I about shuddered when reading about it. While believing that it should be legal to homeschool, I firmly believe that if that choice is made, there needs to be some kind of demonstrated competency proven by those who choose to do the teaching if permission is allowed for it.
In the example furnished in the OP, I think the mistakes are much more important to make note of because the people in these positions are supposed to be trained professionals.
I think it might be a good idea for the copmoser of the prayer to spend a little less time in her holy book and a little more time with something like a Harbrace College Handbook, or some other such writing primer.
As to the issue at hand, I see no reason whatsoever for any type of prayer, or even a moment of silence, in any public school. People who wish to pray can do so privately at any time they so choose. Frankly, I find it amazing that xians choose to ignore some very uncomplicated words that are, allegedly, from their very own leader (see MT 6:5-6). From this, it is very confusing to me that xians would even think of any type of prayer in public.
Personally, I think that people should prepare for, and have the confidence of knowing that they are ready for the test, as opposed to relying on some kind of petition to something supernatural for divine intervention. Some might say, why not both? I say, the former makes the latter moot. If it was a proven fact that we could pray for good grades, we would all be straight A students.
Verzem

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 8 of 35 (102762)
04-26-2004 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
04-23-2004 6:35 PM


In Britain there is still a requirement for ten minutes a day of prayer; although few schools actually follow it.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Verzem
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 35 (102785)
04-26-2004 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Dr Jack
04-26-2004 7:54 AM


Ten minutes?!!! Holy crap! How could you possibly fill up ten minutes every day?
That is interesting. You have that ten minute regulation, yet you are much more secular than the USA. Hmmmm? I think that maybe the fundies better be careful in what they wish for.
Verzem

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Denesha
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 35 (102787)
04-26-2004 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Dr Jack
04-26-2004 7:54 AM


ostensible...
From here (France) the problem is soon finished (in theory). Faith symbols will have to stays outside school's walls (*) but the history of the three principal monotheist religions is includes as a dicipline since 2002.
(*) HTTP 429
(In french)
Denesha

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 11 of 35 (102812)
04-26-2004 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Verzem
04-26-2004 11:15 AM


Verzem writes:
Ten minutes?!!! Holy crap! How could you possibly fill up ten minutes every day?
10 minutes ain't nothing. When I was little, I had to wake up at 5 in the morning everyday and pray for an hour.

The Laminator

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by mike the wiz, posted 04-26-2004 2:13 PM coffee_addict has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 12 of 35 (102821)
04-26-2004 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by coffee_addict
04-26-2004 1:22 PM


What did you say for a whole hour?
Or did you just fall back to sleep?

This message is a reply to:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 13 of 35 (102829)
04-26-2004 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by mike the wiz
04-26-2004 2:13 PM


the wiz writes:
What did you say for a whole hour?
Or did you just fall back to sleep?
My grandma had a whole book of prayers that she made us pray everday. 1 hour before sleep and 1 hour after sleep.
So technically, I'm more holy than you.

The Laminator

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Replies to this message:
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Denesha
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 35 (102849)
04-26-2004 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by coffee_addict
04-26-2004 2:44 PM


No so sure. Have you understood the sense of these prayers?
For a chid, they are not specially rational.
Denesha

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by coffee_addict, posted 04-26-2004 2:44 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 15 of 35 (102854)
04-26-2004 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Denesha
04-26-2004 4:14 PM


Denesha writes:
No so sure. Have you understood the sense of these prayers?
For a chid, they are not specially rational.
You have to understand the cultural aspect of it. People in my culture doesn't believe that you need both actions and faith to get into heaven. Actions are good enough. That's why my parents are making me going through the catholic confirmation ritual so they could save my soul. They don't really care if I believe or not.

The Laminator

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