Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,742 Year: 3,999/9,624 Month: 870/974 Week: 197/286 Day: 4/109 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   big bang and thermodynamic laws
Stipes
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 32 (94600)
03-24-2004 8:45 PM


Thelogians was the wrong word I guess. What I meant was the people that theorize about the beginning of our universe. So sorry.
I read a book called "Stephen Hawking's Universe." And it stated that at the beginning of our universe, the big bang explosion created both matter and anti-matter. What causes this change is the different alighnment of the quarks. (sub-sub-atomic particles.)
SO this matter and anti matter came from the big bang. The matter that we experience in our universe is the left over of the annihilation of the anit-matter and matter, and this free energy is the energy in our universe. The energy from all the anit-matter annihilating matter, is the energy in our universe. In all states. It then went on to say that the big bang didn't expand in a perfect sphere. They have found big bang radiation and found certain spots warmer than other spots. Meaning more kenitic energy, and therefore faster movement.
I am sorry I didn't use the word thermodynamic system, I am sorry I am a different person and use different words.
And yes I know what enthalpy is. I haven't heard your definition, but as it respects to chemicals it is the energy in the bonds. And the universe, whether it is a thermodynamic system or a chemical system is the same thing. Just by the simple logic of chemicals are in the universe. Now what we know about the relationships of atoms start to not matter when you reach the very beginning of the big bang when you approach the point of singularity or something of the sort. Some guy proved when you reach this point, everything that we know of about physics do not apply.
And I brought up enthalpy to NosyNed's response to the original post. I was just elaborating on what he said, which is true. I was saying that there is another factor in any chemical reactions.
And if you say a crystal forming is an increase in entropy, then you are wrong. I didn't really catch what you were saying, but I know that for a fact. And IF you are saying that, then re-look your definitions.

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Stellatic, posted 03-25-2004 7:19 AM Stipes has not replied

  
Stellatic
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 32 (94648)
03-25-2004 7:19 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Stipes
03-24-2004 8:45 PM


Hi Stipes,
Stipes writes:
I read a book called "Stephen Hawking's Universe." And it stated that at the beginning of our universe, the big bang explosion created both matter and anti-matter.
Oh yes, anyone can STATE these kind of things, but I don't think anyone will be convinced by such a statement, as I don't think anyone will be convinced by this one either:
I read a book called the "Bible". And it stated that at the beginning of our universe, God created matter.
I don't want to be annoying, but my point is that anyone can make these statements. I would like to know why a statement should be true.
Stipes writes:
I am sorry I am a different person and use different words.
That's all right. It's not that my words are better, it's just important for a discussion that we know what the other means by certain words. A thermodynamic system is different from a chemical system in the sense that the first one is more general. The first one could also include radiation, magnetic systems etc. I really didn't understand the thing about the theologians, but I understand now that you meant something like theorists. This makes sense to me, so I'm glad you described what you meant.
Stipes writes:
Some guy proved when you reach this point, everything that we know of about physics do not apply.
I know. That was me.
The point is, that because our physics does not apply at that time, we can't say anything about the universe at that time. The first statement above is thus equally true as the second statement, untill we find a new theory that will be able to tell us what happened.
Stipes writes:
And if you say a crystal forming is an increase in entropy, then you are wrong.
You are right, I wasn't precise enough. What I meant to say was not that the entropy of the crystal increased, but the entropy of the system increased. If we consider the system as the chemical (at first liquid and finally a crystal) plus its surrounding environment, then the entropy of the system increased, while the entropy of the chemical decreased, because the increase of the entropy of the environment was larger than the decrease of entropy in the crystal and the entropy is an additive property. (This means that the entropy of the system is equal to the entropy of its components) So, I hope I put that right.
Greets Stellatic

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Stipes, posted 03-24-2004 8:45 PM Stipes has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024