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Author Topic:   Has anyone seen god?
Angel
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 60 (161172)
11-18-2004 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by sidelined
11-17-2004 7:50 AM


This is a contradiction of one statement of the bible to another.It is also in direct contravention with your own statement.
Sidelined,
I think we have spoken enough to each other now, that you should know by now, that I do not deny that there are indeed contradictions in the Bible translations. Errors lead to more errors, etc. My only point, which has been turned into this BIG ordeal was that no one has seen God's face, not His body, or Him in general, but His face. So I think maybe you are asking the wrong one, if you are wanting me to explain a contradiction (or a copy error as I would call it), in the Bible itself. Maybe you should be seeking that answer from someone who believes that there is no errors.

Angel

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by sidelined, posted 11-17-2004 7:50 AM sidelined has not replied

  
Zachariah
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 60 (162486)
11-22-2004 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by arachnophilia
11-18-2004 1:19 AM


Who is the Lord?
the text of that passage says, literally, that Abraham saw the Lord.
If Jesus is not the Lord then who is He? John 10:30 If you believe that Jesus always told the truth then in John 10:30 Jesus says that He and the Father are one. So if the "Lord" is spoken of in the Old Testament, and it is said that you will never see the face of God the Father, then when it refers to the Lord in the Old Testament and you see His face, literally, then it must be (I think) Jesus. That's what I think. -Z

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by arachnophilia, posted 11-18-2004 1:19 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by arachnophilia, posted 11-23-2004 12:15 AM Zachariah has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 48 of 60 (162490)
11-23-2004 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Zachariah
11-22-2004 11:41 PM


Re: Who is the Lord?
i don't believe the book of john.
and when it says abraham saw the lord, it says LORD in caps, not Lord in lower case. the difference is between YHWH (god the father) and adonay (lord of anything, really)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Zachariah, posted 11-22-2004 11:41 PM Zachariah has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Zachariah, posted 11-23-2004 1:45 AM arachnophilia has replied

  
Zachariah
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 60 (162501)
11-23-2004 1:45 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by arachnophilia
11-23-2004 12:15 AM


Re: Who is the Lord?
Wow, interesting. Actually Yhvh or Ihvh (YHWH) as we know it and Adonai are the same in meaning. Adonai-a Hewbrew name for God, usually translated in the Old Testament by the word Lord. (note) The later Jews used it's vowel points to fill out the tetragrammaton Yhvh or Ihvh 'the incommunicable name' and in reading substituted Adonai. --Webster's 1913 Dictionary-- So it looks as though YHWH and Adonai actually are the same in meaning. They just got substituted one for the other throughout hstory. Forbidden

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by arachnophilia, posted 11-23-2004 12:15 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by arachnophilia, posted 11-23-2004 2:21 AM Zachariah has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 50 of 60 (162506)
11-23-2004 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Zachariah
11-23-2004 1:45 AM


Re: Who is the Lord?
i'm well aware of the substitution. you may wish to go read this thread: http://EvC Forum: HaShem - Yahweh or Jehovah? -->EvC Forum: HaShem - Yahweh or Jehovah?
יהוה and אדני are not, however, of the same meaning. יהוה or yahweh is the proper name of god. it's play on the word hawah or "to be." so the name yahweh literally means "he who exists." אדני or adonai, however, means lord and denotes some kind of soveriegnty.
however, traditionally, when you read יהוה you say "adonai" not "yahweh" and thus the two are interchanged. but they only use his title in avoidance of using the actual name. the two are not of same meaning.
This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 11-23-2004 02:23 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Zachariah, posted 11-23-2004 1:45 AM Zachariah has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Zachariah, posted 11-23-2004 2:40 AM arachnophilia has replied

  
Zachariah
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 60 (162509)
11-23-2004 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by arachnophilia
11-23-2004 2:21 AM


Re: Who is the Lord?
I checked it out. Very impressive. What I like best about this site is that when I think I know a little I find out how little I really know. I have to say you know your stuff. You say you don't give credance to John. Why? If you aren't Christian and if you are Jewish or other I can see why you would say that. Is that it? -Z

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by arachnophilia, posted 11-23-2004 2:21 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by arachnophilia, posted 11-23-2004 3:03 AM Zachariah has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 52 of 60 (162512)
11-23-2004 3:03 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Zachariah
11-23-2004 2:40 AM


Re: Who is the Lord?
no, i'm a christian.
i don't believe john because it has christ saying things that actually are blasphemy. it reads more like propaganda than actual quotations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Zachariah, posted 11-23-2004 2:40 AM Zachariah has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Zachariah, posted 11-26-2004 1:18 PM arachnophilia has not replied

  
Zachariah
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 60 (163329)
11-26-2004 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by arachnophilia
11-23-2004 3:03 AM


poss new topic?
Can you give me some examples of where you feel the blasphemy occured?
I would like to research it further and get back to you. Also you should check out the FFOZ (first fruits of zion) site and subscribe it is highly informative. It takes a more "back to the roots" look at the bible and how the Old Testament and New Testament work together to basically back up one another. How nothing really has changed between the two Testaments. You would love it. I think. -Z

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by arachnophilia, posted 11-23-2004 3:03 AM arachnophilia has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by AdminNosy, posted 11-26-2004 1:51 PM Zachariah has not replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 54 of 60 (163335)
11-26-2004 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Zachariah
11-26-2004 1:18 PM


Re: poss new topic?
Thank you Zach, for noting that there is really a new topic here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Zachariah, posted 11-26-2004 1:18 PM Zachariah has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 55 of 60 (306393)
04-25-2006 3:15 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Brian
11-15-2004 5:20 AM


Re: Did Jesus have a face?
Its ben a year or two, but as I browsed I found this exchange between us, Brian!
The Sun, Light, and Heat analogy is not a perfect model, but seems to show that the Light is quite different from the Sun itself.
Similarly, seeing Jesus face to face would be quite a bit tamer than having His Father before you! I mean, wouldnt it? :?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Brian, posted 11-15-2004 5:20 AM Brian has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 56 of 60 (381309)
01-30-2007 3:09 PM


God cannot be seen, only percieved
God is without body or form that can be seen.
Heaven itself is not physical in any way.
God only communicates through the Holy Spirit, directly connected to our souls and consciousness.
The Bible does not show an instance of physical manifestation. Burning bushes and voices heard by the mind. Yes.
Many of the writers in the Bible note that when God spoke to them or showed them revelations, they were "in the spirit". I take this to mean that the occurrence was strictly in the mind.
Regards
DL

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 60 (381325)
01-30-2007 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Brian
11-14-2004 12:29 PM


Re: Did Jesus have a face?
Jesus is the son of God, a man. God the father is not a man. He is the father of Jesus. If you see me, you do not see my father, though I may resemble him. Jesus and Jehovah, the father have one and the same spirit, the Holy Spirit. My father and I do not have the same spirit. To see Jesus is to see the man Jesus, not Jehovah the father. As Jesus was on earth, Jehovah god was up in Heaven. So on earth you see a very close image of God, but you do not see God.
Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Brian, posted 11-14-2004 12:29 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Brian, posted 01-31-2007 3:13 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 58 of 60 (381505)
01-31-2007 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Buzsaw
01-30-2007 4:19 PM


Re: Did Jesus have a face?
Jesus is the son of God, a man. God the father is not a man. He is the father of Jesus.
But a man is someone who has human parents, Jesus didn't have a human father so He could not be a man, He must have been something different.
If you see me, you do not see my father, though I may resemble him.
So your father was a god as well was he?
Jesus was supposed to be God incarnate so it is logical that Jesus looked like God.
Is Jesus God?
So on earth you see a very close image of God, but you do not see God.
Have you seen God?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Buzsaw, posted 01-30-2007 4:19 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Buzsaw, posted 01-31-2007 10:24 PM Brian has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 60 (381616)
01-31-2007 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Brian
01-31-2007 3:13 PM


Re: Did Jesus have a face?
Brian writes:
But a man is someone who has human parents, Jesus didn't have a human father so He could not be a man, He must have been something different.
He often referred to himself as "son of man," meaning he was a human being human born. He was different, nevertheless, a man.
Paul said, "I Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all;......."
Brian writes:
Is Jesus God?
Ask him. He has always referred to himself as the son of God or as the son of man. depending on the context of his statement. He represents man before God as man's advocate.
Brian: "Have you seen God?"
No. I thought I made that clear.
Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Brian, posted 01-31-2007 3:13 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Brian, posted 02-06-2007 4:42 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 60 of 60 (382830)
02-06-2007 4:42 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Buzsaw
01-31-2007 10:24 PM


Re: Did Jesus have a face?
He often referred to himself as "son of man," meaning he was a human being human born.
But He wasn’t human born, human born requires a human mother and father, and we are told Jesus’ father was God. Can you tell me another human whose father wasn’t human?
He was different, nevertheless, a man.
Different but the same?
Someone with a god for a daddy is not human.
Paul said, "I Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all;......."
Well Paul said a lot of things that are absolute crap.
Ask him.
He’s dead, been dead for about 2000 years, if He ever existed that is.
He has always referred to himself as the son of God
Buz, we are all sons of God.
or as the son of man.
He wasn’t the only one referred to as ”son of man’ though. How often was Ezekiel referred to as son of man?
depending on the context of his statement.
Well, to understand the context of his statement you need to understand what these terms mean.
He represents man before God as man's advocate.
Yes we all know the myths, and we all know how ludicrous they are, especially the ”sacrifice’ that wasn’t a sacrifice.
Brian: "Have you seen God?"
Buzz: No. I thought I made that clear.
Okay, so you do not know what God looks like.
You do not know what Jesus looks like.
So, you do not know if they are identical or not.
Here’s some logic.
Jesus is God.
Jesus had a face.
Therefore, Jesus’ face was God’s face.
Simple innit?
Brian

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Buzsaw, posted 01-31-2007 10:24 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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