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Author Topic:   Atheist Frendly Q&A
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6872 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 91 of 110 (191941)
03-16-2005 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by mikehager
03-15-2005 6:17 PM


Re: An honest question
[quote]I was pointing out PG's refusal to discuss his beliefs when requested and that it is bad for an individual to fail to critically consider their beliefs. I stand by my position and reaffirm that it was something that needed to be said to PG. It was in no way an "ambush"

Pascal's Wager......nice try.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by mikehager, posted 03-15-2005 6:17 PM mikehager has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by PecosGeorge, posted 03-16-2005 1:45 PM PecosGeorge has not replied

  
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6872 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 92 of 110 (191946)
03-16-2005 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by PecosGeorge
03-16-2005 1:28 PM


Re: An honest question
[quote]I was pointing out PG's refusal to discuss his beliefs when requested and that it is bad for an individual to fail to critically consider their beliefs. I stand by my position and reaffirm that it was something that needed to be said to PG. It was in no way an "ambush"
I changed my mind about a reply to this. It isn't worth it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by PecosGeorge, posted 03-16-2005 1:28 PM PecosGeorge has not replied

  
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6872 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 93 of 110 (191948)
03-16-2005 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by AdminJar
03-16-2005 1:21 PM


Re: Cut it out!!!
quote:
Frankly, if you are going to take part in these discussions you need to do better. Your tactic of running in, tossing in a firebrand and then when challeged, simply retreating into some protective coccoon is NOT debate or discussion.
If you are going to insert a comment, be prepared to discuss and support your statements. If you're not going to do so, then don't bother making the initail assertion.
I have clearly stated and so from scripture why, at a certain point, I decline to continue in 'discussion'. That is because, in my opinion, continuing is no longer profitable and has nothing to do with cocoons, but prudence and a deep respect for the Word of God.
Discussing scripture is not for slugfests, it is a holy matter, and must be approached with respect.
If this is not acceptable to you, please indicate that it is not, and invite me to leave this forum

Pascal's Wager......nice try.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by AdminJar, posted 03-16-2005 1:21 PM AdminJar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by AdminJar, posted 03-16-2005 2:27 PM PecosGeorge has not replied

  
AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 94 of 110 (191950)
03-16-2005 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by PecosGeorge
03-16-2005 2:19 PM


Re: Cut it out!!!
I have clearly stated and so from scripture why, at a certain point, I decline to continue in 'discussion'.
You appear to use this consistently as a get out of discussion card. If you are going to participate in discussions then such behavior is inappropriate.
You are always free to simply not post or, as you put it, leave this forum. That is totally up to you. But if you are going to post in threads you will be expected to participate. That does not mean tossing in an aside and when it is questioned or additional input is requested, running away.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by PecosGeorge, posted 03-16-2005 2:19 PM PecosGeorge has not replied

  
Taqless
Member (Idle past 5913 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003


Message 95 of 110 (191973)
03-16-2005 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by PecosGeorge
03-15-2005 9:37 AM


Re: An honest question
Pecos George writes:
The difference is stated in Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded [is] death;
Really? Well, if carnal knowledge is sexual intercourse between a man (let's say Adam) and a woman (let's say Eve) then the verse means...what?
1) Adam and Eve didn't have carnal knowledge?
If not, then why the reproductive parts?
2) Carnal knowledge before the fall did not lead to death?
So, "the fall" resulted in carnal knowledge leading
to death? Hmmm, which would imply that the death due to "the
fall" was NOT spiritual death afterall (an explanation used here
on this forum).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by PecosGeorge, posted 03-15-2005 9:37 AM PecosGeorge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by jar, posted 03-16-2005 5:57 PM Taqless has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 96 of 110 (191985)
03-16-2005 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Taqless
03-16-2005 5:14 PM


Carnal Knowledge
I'm not sure if PG is still around and participating but I feel some reply to your question is warranted.
In his letter to the Romans Paul is not using carnal in a sexual sense but rather to mean "Worldly". He is speaking of those who are more concerned with the latest toys than with doing what's right.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Taqless, posted 03-16-2005 5:14 PM Taqless has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Taqless, posted 03-16-2005 6:33 PM jar has replied

  
Taqless
Member (Idle past 5913 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003


Message 97 of 110 (191994)
03-16-2005 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by jar
03-16-2005 5:57 PM


Re: Carnal Knowledge
Oops! Thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by jar, posted 03-16-2005 5:57 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 03-16-2005 8:28 PM Taqless has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 98 of 110 (192007)
03-16-2005 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Taqless
03-16-2005 6:33 PM


Re: Carnal Knowledge
No problem. In fact, I hope this thread will become a place where just that type of question can be brought up and answered. After all, it was one of the few times Paul wasn't talking about sex. LOL

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Taqless, posted 03-16-2005 6:33 PM Taqless has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Taqless, posted 03-17-2005 10:51 AM jar has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 99 of 110 (192023)
03-16-2005 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by PecosGeorge
03-15-2005 1:56 PM


Re: An honest question
quote:
I have shown from scripture that what is scriptural is foolishness to those of a not-spiritual mind. It means that scripture is foolishness to those who are not of a spiritual mind. I have not said you are foolish, I have not said anyone is foolish, I have said that there are those who are not spiritually minded to understand or accept scripture (at its word), and that requires a spiritual mind, not nature.
OK, I get it.
People who agree with you all the time and do not question your reasoning are spiritually-minded and anyone who disagrees with you or points out when you are in error is not spiritually-minded.
Tell me, PG, how is this not a dressed up version of you telling us to just accept that you have all the answers and to shut up and stop questioning you?
This message has been edited by AdminPhat, 03-17-2005 10:55 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by PecosGeorge, posted 03-15-2005 1:56 PM PecosGeorge has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 100 of 110 (192025)
03-16-2005 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by PecosGeorge
03-16-2005 1:11 PM


Re: An honest question
quote:
I hope your delusions of grandeur are not too painful.
Tell me PG, which person is the more arrogant, the one who doubts what he knows, or the one who never doubts what he knows?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by PecosGeorge, posted 03-16-2005 1:11 PM PecosGeorge has not replied

  
Taqless
Member (Idle past 5913 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003


Message 101 of 110 (192117)
03-17-2005 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by jar
03-16-2005 8:28 PM


Re: Carnal Knowledge
After all, it was one of the few times Paul wasn't talking about sex. LOL
Hence, my faux-pa.
I did, however, have a question for you. One sees quite often christians automatically slipping into this idea that they are spiritual because of being christian. This leads me to ask
Is the spirituality taught and espoused by Jesus Christ the same "spirit" that is talked about in the old testament as coming into someone?
I ask because in my limited experience (raised SDA) I always get a very different feel from the message that JC had concerning our lives, the treatment of other people, etc when compared to the message that the old testament had and definitely even the message that Paul gave....which always struck me as a fanatical/fundamental version of what JC taught. I would liken it to the idea that no one will give you more hell about smoking than an ex-smoker!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 03-16-2005 8:28 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 03-17-2005 11:31 AM Taqless has replied
 Message 103 by Phat, posted 03-17-2005 12:48 PM Taqless has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 102 of 110 (192123)
03-17-2005 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Taqless
03-17-2005 10:51 AM


Spirit and Spirituality.
Tagless asks:
Is the spirituality taught and espoused by Jesus Christ the same "spirit" that is talked about in the old testament as coming into someone?
Wow. You folk are tough. Yet another very good question.
This one is going to be a little more difficult to answer. Let me ask you to give me a couple examples of what you're talking about as it relates to the OT. The reason I'm asking is that there are many different instances of Spirit in the OT and without knowing the context it's hard to determine what you're referring to.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Taqless, posted 03-17-2005 10:51 AM Taqless has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Taqless, posted 03-17-2005 6:11 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 103 of 110 (192136)
03-17-2005 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Taqless
03-17-2005 10:51 AM


Re: Carnal Knowledge
tagless writes:
I always get a very different feel from the message that JC had concerning our lives, the treatment of other people, etc when compared to the message that the old testament had and definitely even the message that Paul gave....which always struck me as a fanatical/fundamental version of what JC taught.
Hey, Tagless! In my opinion, Jesus was always easier on common folk than common folk are on each other! The message of the O.T. was written for whoever reads it, as any good book is, but it was written TO the Jews. The message of the Gospels was also written TO the Jews as a fullfillment of their Messianic Kingdom.
God in His foreknowledge knew that Israel would reject their Messiah, so the message expanded when Paul was knocked off his high horse and converted. His message, directed at a new group of people known as the Body of Christ, was a mystery that was only unveiled at that time. It was a message unknown by any Prophets before, but known by God. Paul was human, and his message was fanatical because he was fanatical. It is not a judgemental message of rules, however.
Keep in mind that church folk are human and therefore very imperfect. The church is harder on its own than they need to be. We all were "smokers" at one point in our lives, and were it not for the Grace of God and that alone, we would still be "smokers"!
When Jesus speaks words of judgement, they are always directed at pompous Church folk who arrogantly assume divinity status.(Be they Pharisee of T.B.N. windbags.) Its not about trying to do all the right things, although doing good works will come naturally to a believer. It is about trusting the source of your inner spirit. The source originates with the Father, brought through the Son by The Holy Spirit into your heart.
People get mixed up when they assume that they can just do good things and still keep their own self will.(You cannot serve two masters.}
A believer is not a religious person, necessarily. A believer is one who has undergone a transformation of sorts. They do good things just because they feel an inner joy and unction to do so! That is God in us!
A common cliche? Christianity is NOT a religion. Man in his imperfection has tried to make it so. Christianity is a relationship, with the living Spirit that yearns to be within us.
Its not usually the people with the plastic haircuts and faithful churchgoing that have this Spirit. It is the common folk that shine like a light without trying to keep you in the dark!
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 03-17-2005 10:54 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Taqless, posted 03-17-2005 10:51 AM Taqless has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Taqless, posted 03-17-2005 6:20 PM Phat has not replied

  
Taqless
Member (Idle past 5913 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003


Message 104 of 110 (192171)
03-17-2005 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by jar
03-17-2005 11:31 AM


Re: Spirit and Spirituality.
Let me try to explain further, since I don't own a bible, so examples might be a stretch for me.
From my recollection "spirit" takes on more of a "this is mine and I'm gonna give it to you" type of approach....like a physical aspect that the god could bestow on someone in the old testament:
spirit moves someone
spirit moves something else (across the waters?)
It's almost as though it is something done to something else.
In contrast, Jesus (let's limit what is discussed to him) seems to propose a concept of spirit that involves everything...the inter-connectedness of it all....mmm kinda like ownership of one and how it relates to everything else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 03-17-2005 11:31 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by jar, posted 03-17-2005 9:10 PM Taqless has replied

  
Taqless
Member (Idle past 5913 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003


Message 105 of 110 (192173)
03-17-2005 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Phat
03-17-2005 12:48 PM


Re: Spirituality
Hey Phatboy!
Thanks for your reply. Although I have alot of respect for your ideas and the way you think your reply seems a bit off the mark. I'm more interested in the reason for the difference between spirituality in the old testament versus the new wrt JC (since I think that many christians feel he is the son of god as well as the god of the old testament). Hope that helps, maybe I misunderstood your reply. I will re-read it in the meantime.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Phat, posted 03-17-2005 12:48 PM Phat has not replied

  
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