Validity of differing eyewitness accounts in religious texts

No, that's what a person who doesn't want to make the effort to think it through concludes, not a rational person.

How about you take the effort to think it through for once? C'mon, Faith. You show up here with these fairy stories that wouldn't convince a child, and you're telling me to "think it through?" Please.I did think it through, starting from the time I was a believer in your exact same religion.

Help, I'm being ignored! I'm being deep-sixed! I'm being drowned!Help me!Help me!Help me!Help me!

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

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Would that be allah as in hubal or Jehovah God?

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Hi thereNo, this is not the case in Islaam. Allaah always been worhsipped from Adam to Ibraheem (PBUT) to present.English speaking people do not have another word beside "God" for a deity, which does not describes the One and Only True Allaah, the Creator, the Sustainer etc.The name you cited are not even used by Pagan Arabs of pre-Islaam. They still worshipped the One and Only True Allaah, but beside that they have hundreds of sub-deities, which they worshipped.I think you need to further your knolwedge and understanding on this subject.Checkmate

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"An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart."

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Hey, I don't know anything about God, but when I see a whole lot of people who simply can't agree on even a single detail, you know what a rational person concludes? That none of them know what they're talking about.

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A rational person would they that all of these people can't be right as the same time.However, in order to to conclude what you have asserted a rational person will examine the evidence and facts about the subject matters (in this case "God") and then will deliberate.

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"An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart."

Stick to discussing the message.

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Allaah is Most Merciful and don't put people in Hell for nothing or for minor mistakes. Allaah forvies all since except "Shirk" (Polytheism), which has been explicitly decreed in the Qur'aan.Allaah is also not vindictive and vengeful like YHWH and/or Elohim and/Adoni and/or Jehovah...

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"An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart."

Hi thereI have a great deal of trouble with your double standard and absolute ignorance of Islaam that is demonstrated here 24/4. That allows anyone to shoot his or her mouth of with absolute lies, distortion and disinformation and start a thread. Thereafter, we have 100s of posts on that false information and lies. But a Muslim is not allowed to confront the liar of ignorant?How many here really even have the basic knowledge of Islaam and/or Qur'aan? Or talking off one's "Butt" is the only qualification one needs to assault other peoples' faith and/or belief.Here, I have found few polite and sensible members who are not Muslims but have decency to put their questions and view with perspective and in coherent fashion. Being an atheist does not give you are right to hurl insults and lies against Islaam, unless you are a bigot Jew and Christian hiding under pretext of being an "atheist" to attack Islaam.I don't mind debating anyone anything using facts and evidence. I am not here to convert you all. Don't be paranoid. Why you can't be a little sensitive about other beliefs? And to coerce and bring into your line, you ban people of day or two. But never examine and take actions for lies posted, especially the new thread started with lies. You actually condone that and approve that, why?Is this your version of exploring facts, truth and honesty and other religions by using hate, prejudice and bigotry by hook, by nook and by crook? This very thread is a living proof of ignorance, lies and bigotry about and/or against Islaam. That is further cemented by the admission and apology of originator, but is is too late. Because your policy and perhaps ignorace as well has helped spread the disinformation.Regards
CheckmateThis message has been edited by Checkmate, 04-28-2005 10:50 AM

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"An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart."

Impossible, when the object under inquiry - God - has been deliberately set beyond evidence and facts; beyond the reach of empirical investigation.There are no facts to examine. Theists are very careful to make sure this is the case.

I could be wrong but Admin Jar is a christian. Not everyone at the site is godless.I see you have gone back to calling me a liar - as I explained in ERROR, I assumed that the chapter titles in the Koran worked in the same way as the bible. I WAS WRONG - I've said this multiple times now, what do you want? Fucking blood?

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Impossible, when the object under inquiry - God - has been deliberately set beyond evidence and facts; beyond the reach of empirical investigation.

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Hi thereWhat are you talking about, I have no clue? Perhaps, your assertions are based on your Judeo-Christian background. As a Muslim, I can vouvh for that to be absolutelt wrong and hogwasg. Allaah is not deliterately set beyond evidence and facts or beyond reach of empirical investigation.But, again, since you are not famaliar to Islaamic teachings and especially may not have ever read the Qur'aan.Glorious Qur'aan has repeatedly repeated that this Book (Qur'aan) is for (For people who think). I hope the Arabic phrase of Qur'aan will appear that you can see. Bottom line, Qur'aan has repeatedly ask the mankind to think, process and ponder upon the teachings of Qur'aan. Islaam does not require blind faith and there is no unexplainable gobbledygook" in the Qur'aan. Such as trinity, Jesus resurrection and other things, which you are told that you can't understand (not that they can't be explained as rationale).

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There are no facts to examine. Theists are very careful to make sure this is the case

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Again, I disagree. Since this is not the case in Islaam. You shouldn't generalize, but I understand where you are coming from.Regards
Checkmate

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"An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart."

Well, like most Americans, I really don't have a clue.But the facts of the existence of your god won't be in your religious text; it'll be in the world for everyone to see. What are the facts that substantiate the existence of Allah? Not from the Qur'aan, but from the world? Well, ok, at some point I hope you'll open a thread and show us those facts.

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I could be wrong but Admin Jar is a christian. Not everyone at the site is godless.
I see you have gone back to calling me a liar - as I explained in ERROR, I assumed that the chapter titles in the Koran worked in the same way as the bible. I WAS WRONG - I've said this multiple times now, what do you want? Fucking blood?

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Hi General KrullI accepted your apology and I understand that people makes mistakes. I did not call you are liar. I used that word for reading many others posts by others in different forums.COM’ on GK! You can do better rather using profanity. I am not angry with you.If Admin Jar is a christian than perhaps he/she (?) enjoyed Qur'aan got bashed with distortion by "Faith" here. After all Islaam is Christianity's competition and they have been losing for a long time, since more Christians are converting to Islaam in Europe and North America.BTW, I have nothing against "godless" or atheist and I don't look down to them.Regards
Checkmate

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"An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart."

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But the facts of the existence of your god won't be in your religious text; it'll be in the world for everyone to see.

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Hi thereThe facts and/or proof of existance of Allaah is in the Glorious Qur'aan and repeatedly mentioned or referred by inviting mankind to think and ponder. It is also in the world around us to see, think and ponder, about which Qur'aan also gives examples to think upon and even challenges the mankind to think and prove it wrong if he disagree.

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What are the facts that substantiate the existence of Allah? Not from the Qur'aan, but from the world?

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Wait a minute, first some one said that it is the religious scripture that does not prove existance of God and now we have two seperate kind of inquiries. But thats OK!We can debate both questions, but I suggest that we use the new thread for this, or Amdin Jar will be on our case for being off topic. Also we need to set few rules of debate and that would manily deal with evidence. What you say?Regards
CheckmateThis message has been edited by Checkmate, 04-28-2005 11:45 AM

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"An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart."

Why would I believe the Qur'aan? Anyone can write a book. Show me the facts that I can verify for myself, not the claims for which I simply have to take the word of the Qur'aan's authors. Open the thread. Set whatever terms you like.