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Author Topic:   Big Bang Problem
desdamona
Inactive Member


Message 166 of 185 (102069)
04-23-2004 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by SRO2
04-23-2004 12:29 AM


Re: Falling stars
I'm not sure that perfect is the word for it.
No one has ever really told me that it's perfect.If it was,it doesn't look like it anymore.How long has NASA been around now?

Desdamona

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by SRO2, posted 04-23-2004 12:29 AM SRO2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by SRO2, posted 04-23-2004 12:46 AM desdamona has not replied

Sylas
Member (Idle past 5260 days)
Posts: 766
From: Newcastle, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2002


Message 167 of 185 (102071)
04-23-2004 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by desdamona
04-23-2004 12:18 AM


Re: Falling stars
desdamona writes:
Thanks for the information. But how does the big bang explain all the stars and how they stay in place like many of them seem to do?
Strictly speaking, the Big Bang does not explain stars and how they stay in place. The Big Bang explains the very very early stages of the universe, long before any stars. It explains the origins of material from which stars are made. Stars are a different subject. I suggest we leave the Big Bang alone, for the moment. It is way way too complicated. Think back to the post where I cited five lines of evidence for the Big Bang; there is just too much background before we can even begin to discuss that at any depth.
To understand what keeps stars in place, you first of all need to grasp what that "place" actually is. It makes no sense to speak of a star "falling" to Earth, because they are so very far away that Earth's gravity has no effect.
Do you know what keeps the Moon in place? It is gravity. The Moon is in orbit around the Earth. In the same way, the Earth is in orbit around the Sun, and this is what keeps the Sun apparently "in place" in the sky.
The stars we see; including the Sun itself; are in orbit around a large central structure, called a galaxy. Our galaxy is the Milky Way. We can't see it entirely, because we are inside it. From Enchanted Learning on Spiral Galaxies, here is an image of what the Milky Way would like, and also a photo of another similar galaxy, Andromeda.
There is an entry in the Enchanted Learning glossary for Big Bang, but no detailed discussion. It is not really possible to talk about it sensibly at this level.
Cheers -- Sylas

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by desdamona, posted 04-23-2004 12:18 AM desdamona has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Asgara, posted 04-23-2004 12:46 AM Sylas has replied
 Message 174 by desdamona, posted 04-23-2004 1:06 AM Sylas has not replied

SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 168 of 185 (102072)
04-23-2004 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by desdamona
04-23-2004 12:35 AM


Re: Falling stars
Since the late 50's to early 60's. They were actually around a little before that. Dr. Werner Van Braun started the space program (he worked under Hitler and developed the "V-2" rocket that bombed England ((later converted to the Mercury rocket that put John Glen in orbit)). He developed the Saturn V rocket that eventually put the U.S. on the moon.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by desdamona, posted 04-23-2004 12:35 AM desdamona has not replied

Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 169 of 185 (102073)
04-23-2004 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Sylas
04-23-2004 12:41 AM


Re: Falling stars
Not to interrupt the discussion...but I always thought we were on the Sag arm. We are on the Orion arm?

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Sylas, posted 04-23-2004 12:41 AM Sylas has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by Sylas, posted 04-23-2004 12:51 AM Asgara has replied

Sylas
Member (Idle past 5260 days)
Posts: 766
From: Newcastle, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2002


Message 170 of 185 (102075)
04-23-2004 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by Asgara
04-23-2004 12:46 AM


Re: Falling stars
No idea. I don't know the names of the arms, and would have to look it up. Here is your chance to educate me a bit; check it out for me and let us know what you find. Which arm are we on? Which is the arm we see spread across the sky that gave the Milky Way its name?
Cheers -- Sylas
[This message has been edited by Sylas, 04-22-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Asgara, posted 04-23-2004 12:46 AM Asgara has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by NosyNed, posted 04-23-2004 12:58 AM Sylas has not replied
 Message 172 by Asgara, posted 04-23-2004 12:59 AM Sylas has not replied
 Message 173 by SRO2, posted 04-23-2004 1:01 AM Sylas has not replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 171 of 185 (102076)
04-23-2004 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by Sylas
04-23-2004 12:51 AM


Milky Way
Thatis the sagitarious arm. It is brightest in the constellation sagitarious and in that direction is the galactic centre.
I used to love laying back on the dock at my parents place with the milkyway over head. I'd often get the feeling of being "tilted" with the earth and I not aligned with it correctly. From up there Andromeda was also visible on dark enough nights.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Sylas, posted 04-23-2004 12:51 AM Sylas has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Asgara, posted 04-23-2004 1:07 AM NosyNed has not replied

Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 172 of 185 (102077)
04-23-2004 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by Sylas
04-23-2004 12:51 AM


Re: Falling stars
LOL...was expecting you to set me straight
Here at a site from U Calgary it talks about our local arm. Seems we are on a small offshoot. Our local arm might be a branch of either the Perseus or Sag arm. Your link calls our little arm a spur.
On a map here it does look as if the Orion arm is more correctly a spur or offshoot of one of the larger arms, either Sag or Perseus.
{{edited to take out busted img link...it is from the link just above}}
Thanks for making me look that up hun. Its much more fun than just being told.
[This message has been edited by Asgara, 04-23-2004]

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Sylas, posted 04-23-2004 12:51 AM Sylas has not replied

SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 173 of 185 (102079)
04-23-2004 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by Sylas
04-23-2004 12:51 AM


Re: Falling stars
Just an interesting bit. The american indians had a name for the spiral arm we can see occasionally at night....they called it the "backbone of the sky" and they believed it was what actually held the sky up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Sylas, posted 04-23-2004 12:51 AM Sylas has not replied

desdamona
Inactive Member


Message 174 of 185 (102080)
04-23-2004 1:06 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Sylas
04-23-2004 12:41 AM


Re: Falling stars
Are those names from where those who do horoscopes come from?
Where those names already given to the solar system before horoscopes came along? There is a great deal to learn about the planets,stars,and the galaxy,ect...

Desdamona

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Sylas, posted 04-23-2004 12:41 AM Sylas has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by Asgara, posted 04-23-2004 1:16 AM desdamona has replied

Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 175 of 185 (102081)
04-23-2004 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 171 by NosyNed
04-23-2004 12:58 AM


Re: Milky Way
I know exactly what you were feeling. I am from the U.P. of Michigan (the upper peninsula for you furriners )
I can remember laying out in a dark area watching the northern lights and the milky way and feeling decidedly small, insignificant and yes...disconcertingly tilted.

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by NosyNed, posted 04-23-2004 12:58 AM NosyNed has not replied

Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 176 of 185 (102083)
04-23-2004 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by desdamona
04-23-2004 1:06 AM


Re: Falling stars
Yes the names are from constellations. Sagittarius is the same constellation that the zodiac sign gets its name from. The signs of the zodiac are named for the constellation background that the sun seems to rise against during different times of the year.
Here is a great site from my state university system's astronomy department.
Department of Astronomy – UW—Madison

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by desdamona, posted 04-23-2004 1:06 AM desdamona has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by desdamona, posted 04-23-2004 1:54 AM Asgara has not replied

desdamona
Inactive Member


Message 177 of 185 (102091)
04-23-2004 1:54 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by Asgara
04-23-2004 1:16 AM


Re: Falling stars
Asgara,that was a very good site.It has tons of information.I especially liked the part about how the stars Got their names.I didn't know that they were arabic.
Pretty cool site.I'll need to write down the link.
blessings always to you.
[This message has been edited by desdamona, 04-23-2004]

Desdamona

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Asgara, posted 04-23-2004 1:16 AM Asgara has not replied

Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3442 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 178 of 185 (102145)
04-23-2004 8:33 AM


Greetings Desdamona,
Welcome to EvC forums
I'd guess you are fairly young person (of course I could be totally wrong) - anyway, all people are welcome here - it's good to see a young lady seeking to communicate and learn.
Don't be discouraged if some people here seem a little rude - its easy to be overly critical when using impersonal words like this. I'm sure they would be perfectly nice to you in person.
Because many of the members here are indeed very smart, and can communicate difficult ideas very well - you can learn a great deal here.
However,
may I pass on a few tips to make your experience here more fruitful?
Firstly,
if you REALLY want to actually LEARN, then you will have to put on your learning hat - I mean you should act like you have been allowed into in a serious discussion with educated adults, not act like you are bragging to your mates in the schoolyard what you heard from your brother.
Secondly, about the Bible...
This is one of the most serious issues that face a growing and maturing person - eventually one is lead to realise that the Bible is useful for understanding our roots, great for some classical metaphors about reality - but not an infallible science book from God.
If you come from an environment where the Bible is a key part of people's lives, where your family all believe and all still go to church, then you will find it very difficult.
But seriously, the educated, modern view is that the Bible is myth, but not science. If you want to truly learn to the best of you ability how the world works, then one day you will have to put the Bible in its place - not abandon it, but see it as old favourite stories, not an infallible guide to reality. Even if that's hard to take for now, I hope you consider these issues carefully ("Do what thou wilt, and harm ye none" - meaning "make you OWN mind up, but don't hurt anything")
Anyway,
may I offer my sincere encouragement to keep asking and learning - with a polite and open attitude you will learn much here - smart and educated people just LOVE to explain stuff to young people who actually LISTEN - trust me
regards,
Iasion

RingoKid
Inactive Member


Message 179 of 185 (104100)
04-30-2004 7:03 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by rineholdr
04-20-2004 2:16 PM


to rineholdr...
quote:
Your staring into the black box of cosmology and having bubbles of pure thought...
thanks I think ???
BTW I think "des the moaner" is probably sum freshman posing as an ignorant woman trying and succeeding in getting a rise from sum of the powerhouse thinkers in here and pissing himself laughing while dismissing the impotent pleading of the admins to stay on point
sum funny stuff alright...
...I wish they'd burst my bubble instead cos if they can't then I'm going to carry on believing it
as you were...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by rineholdr, posted 04-20-2004 2:16 PM rineholdr has not replied

Morningstar
Inactive Member


Message 180 of 185 (144789)
09-26-2004 1:16 AM


Back on subjet
I was curious what caused the initial clumping of particles after the big bang? If my understanding is right, there would be equal gravitational force between all particles after the event. How then did stars and other bodies begin to collect their mass?

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by crashfrog, posted 09-26-2004 2:01 AM Morningstar has not replied

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