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Author Topic:   Has anyone ever changed their minds?
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 16 of 29 (122727)
07-07-2004 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by coffee_addict
07-07-2004 1:47 PM



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 Message 15 by coffee_addict, posted 07-07-2004 1:47 PM coffee_addict has replied

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 17 of 29 (122729)
07-07-2004 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by mike the wiz
07-07-2004 1:31 PM


It really comes down to a semantic issue. Find out what Einstein meant by "God" - if you're happy to call that "God" then Einstein believed in "God" (to you - and obviously to Einstein, when he was alive). If not then Einstein did not believe in "God" (to you).
Ironically I suspect that most people who say that Einstein beleived in God would fall into the latter count and call him an atheist if they knew what he meant. Let's not forget that Einstein compared his view of God to Spinoza's - and Spinoza was also called an atheist for his beliefs.

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 18 of 29 (122730)
07-07-2004 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by mike the wiz
07-07-2004 1:57 PM


Ok, why don't you post a picture of yourself in this thead and we'll decide if you are a pure blood or a hybrid.
This reminds me of a scholarship application I once had. It was clearly labeled as a minority scholarship, so I applied. It turned out that it was a minority scholarship strictly for blacks (why the hell did they stop considering asians as minority, considering blacks outnumber just about all the other minority groups put together?). They asked for a picture to prove that I was black, and I bluntly replied in a letter with a big "no".

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5907 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 19 of 29 (122731)
07-07-2004 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by coffee_addict
07-07-2004 1:47 PM


Lam
I am not sure of this. From the wikipedia website I came across this item.
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
Source: 1954 letter to an atheist. (Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press, 1981.)
At least there is a possibility of checking this up.It should be noted that the Wikipedia site also has this quote seperate from an area where quotes are listed that are only attributed to him.

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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 20 of 29 (122733)
07-07-2004 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by coffee_addict
07-07-2004 2:06 PM


ROFL. You look like Yoda on the floor there. Tee hee hee, contemplating the force required to wipe out all fundies.
I have no pictures of my evil wizbit on the internet. But pray tell, how do you imagine I would look?
As for Einstein(oops, I've started this topic drift), Paul/sidelined. I guess it would be great if there was a piece of videotape with him explaining what he actually thought or meant by God. I hear from Sidelined's quote that he doesn't believe in a "personal God", but that doesn't mean he didn't believe in an impersonal one does it?....You see. it's started already, Lam says he did, and you guys say he was more atheistic. Ho hum.

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 21 of 29 (122795)
07-07-2004 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by mike the wiz
07-07-2004 2:21 PM


But that's the point. To most people an impersonal "God" is not a "God" - a "God" is a "person" - an intelligent being capable of conscious thought, decision and action.
"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist."
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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 22 of 29 (122812)
07-07-2004 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by PaulK
07-07-2004 7:19 PM


" I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God "
I suppose that is acceptable to me, after what I said to Lam about not being able to prove Christ.
So...how much do you agree with the things he says?
Funnily enough, he seems to suggest that morals are no concern to God, but for us only. Yet God is still perfect. I've got to use that argument the next time I'm defending the OT.

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Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 29 (122853)
07-08-2004 12:30 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by mike the wiz
07-07-2004 8:13 PM


Actually, Einstein's references to morals relating to humans relates to his belief that morals and ethics stem from humans, not some mythical law-giver. If you read much more of his writings, you will also notice he condemns the idea of a personal god who uses reward and punishment as the basis for morality instead of reason. But hey, whatever works for you.
My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment.
-Albert Einstein

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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 24 of 29 (122898)
07-08-2004 7:00 AM


TOPIC DRIFT ALERT!
Let's get back to the theme as expressed by the topic title.
Someone may wish to propose a new topic for the other stuff.
Adminnemooseus

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 25 of 29 (122899)
07-08-2004 7:02 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by mike the wiz
07-07-2004 8:13 PM


That just goes back to God not being a person. Are morals important to photons ? To galaxies ?
And if your idea of "defending" the OT is to deny both the OT and NT conceptions of God then I think you need to think much more carefully about the arguments you use.
This message has been edited by PaulK, 07-08-2004 06:07 AM

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 26 of 29 (125644)
07-19-2004 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Darwin Storm
07-08-2004 12:30 AM


and?
i don't believe that man necessarily got his morals from a mystical book, but simply from the essence of his 'creation' by a righteous (though not necessarily benevolent) god.
if something is 'made' (by whatever process) by a being/consciousness that is "right" and "just" and so forth, then this creature must also tend to that persuasion. but then (being monotheistic) i don't accept the idea that anything is "against" or "equal to" god so therefore what we call "evil" must also stem from god as the origin/ruler of all things. therefore, our ideas of morality and such don't matter. it might, in fact, follow that our ideas about everything don't matter. but then i'm meadering because my body has denied me the ability to sleep more than 5 hours a night for the month or so.
guide to this post.
1. / means or. in the sense that one of these could be correct while the other is widly inaccurate but it could, in fact, be either.
2. wow i have crazy ideas.
*edit* oh. and slightly more on topic, i was raised presbyterian and still consider myself thus. i'm sure many of those who were responsible for my training are yecs but i never really was. i did once believe in the 6 day creation thing but i didn't limit god to this particular opinion and rather accepted it since i hadn't had the opportunity to explore it on my own. so now i simply explore and make up crazy ideas as my own translation of the particular description of god i ascribe to. and tend not to discuss this with most people i know. it causes issues.
This message has been edited by brennakimi, 07-19-2004 09:23 AM

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kc8rdb
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 29 (155456)
11-03-2004 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
07-07-2004 12:19 AM


Actually, yes, but on a different board. I used to think that evolution was wrong, regardless of what anyone said, but now I am not so sure...
Although I would not say that I have fully changed my mind, yet it is hard to resist the strong evidences for evolution. Growing up, I was taught Creation, and if Evolution ever came up, it was in a bad light. The school I attended up until I graduated even went so far as to say that Evolution is a lie and must be refuted. The ironic thing is that they never taught us how to "refute" Evolution. This is why I am leaning very strongly toward the Evolutionist way of thinking.

Nicole

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dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 29 (155494)
11-03-2004 2:10 PM


My story, in a nutshell:
I was raised as a Catholic by my parents.
As a student in school, I started learning about evolution and science and began to question my beliefs.
I posed many questions to my parents (and other Catholics that I knew) and did not get many satisfactory answers.
With my newfound knowledge and explanations of the world, I abandoned belief in God entirely at about age 15 and lived as an atheist till the year 2001.
A relationship with a woman that considered herself a Christian led to me hearing Christian radio broadcasts (Greg Laurie specifically). I found the guy (pastor) funny and interesting. Many of the things he quoted from the bible, though, rang true about what I had experienced in life. As I listened more and more, I realized that I didn't have much actual knowledge of the bible. I also realized that there were answers to many of the difficult questions that I had as a child/teenager.
Through that same radio station, I was introduced to pastors such as Adrian Rogers, Charles Stanley, James Kennedy, and, more recently, R.C. Sproul, who taught me extensively from the bible.
Then, I stumbled upon a website called audio-bible.com where I was able to listen to the entire bible at my job.
I am now a Christian with knowledge of evolution and the bible and consider myself blessed to be such.

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 29 of 29 (155502)
11-03-2004 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
07-07-2004 12:19 AM


not on this board, but before.

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