Psychology looks at atheism and theism. Also, atheism is tenuous/non-existent/rare ..

BTW, Ken, I replied to your intial post/arguement in detail in post 146.

Hey, Ken! Are you gonna tell me what "God" is, so we can all see if we believe in whatever it is? Mike's not doing so hot on that count.

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"Good evening. I'm playing the role of Jesus; a man once portrayed on the big screen by Jeffery Hunter. You may remember him as the actor who was replaced by William Shatner on Star Trek. Apparently Mr. Hunter was good enough to die for our sins, but not quite up to the task of seducing green women."
-Stewie Griffin

to: Darwin StormI was taking some time to respond to your post to which you referred to.In my initial post, I said that professed atheist showed signs of self absorbtion and often committed the genetic fallacy. I also belive that professed materialist often ignore material they do not like either through selective perception or through self imposed ignorance. I also demonstrated this vis a vis this thread.I did not say although I believe it is often true that many professed atheists have a tendency not to read carefully material they do not like or not bother to read it at all. I believe you did this. At the same time I would admit that to err is human and Christians and myself sometimes do not read material carefully. But, I constantly have seen professed materialist exhibit this trait.Here is what you Darwin Storm wrote: [quote] First off, this study has nothing to do with mental health, it has to do with physical health....Your whole arguement based on this article is crap, since you obviously didn't read the article or failed to note that it doesn't involve athiests or mental health. [quote] Here is the Mayo Clinic links info:

quote:

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In an article also published in this issue of Mayo Clinic Proceedings, Mayo Clinic researchers reviewed published studies, meta-analyses, systematic reviews and subject reviews that examined the association between religious involvement and spirituality and physical health, mental health, health-related quality of life and other health outcomes.

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The authors report a majority of the nearly 350 studies of physical health and 850 studies of mental health that have used religious and spiritual variables have found that religious involvement and spirituality are associated with better health outcomes.

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Page Not Found - Site Help - Mayo Clinic

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You also wrote:

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Your first fallacy is an arguement from ignorance. Your simple lack of knowledge concering "martyrs" who are athiests doesn't mean they don't exist.

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This is a straw man. I clearly admitted that to my knowledge there is no definitive profesed materialist martyr (no other likely variables affecting outcome such as nationalism, politics, etc). So far, the professed materialist have not brought any definitive martyrs from their side of the aisle. There are many non-nationalist and non overtly political Christian martyrs.Next you wrote:

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First off, Sarte may or may not have had his doubts, and even considered the possibility of god. However, his personal beliefs and doubts are just that, his personal beliefs and doubts.

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First of all, my website gives the edition of Harper's magazine the Sartre quote was obtained from:Simone de Beauvoir, "A Conversation About Death and God," Harper’s magazine, February 1984, p. 39.Sartre's wavering is well known (I believe according to his girlfriend he said at his deathbed, "I failed."). It is also known that he was one of the most famous professed atheists of the twentieth century.re: crickIf I pulled the Crick quote out of context please provide evidence of your allegation that I did.I would agree that at least this time you did try to address my material but I did not see a serious tackling of the whole issue or my whole thread. Perhaps, you should open a string on the topic.

Addendum:You Darwin Storm also wrote:

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Secondly, I am sure I can find christians that had problems with there fathers. This entire line of reasoning is bullshit, and you should know it.

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You need to provide a comparable study of Vitz's which shows the most prominent Christian leaders in the last 400 years had father problems. Vitz claimed he saw no parallel.AND

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Also, there are plenty of atheists who had excellent relations with their parents (including their fathers).

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The Vitz study looks at the most prominent professed atheist of the last 400 years. In good faith you need to show that at least a majority of prominent atheists had decent relationships with their fathers. At the very least you need to show that I very large percentage of Vitz's example are incorrect. I said I had problems with Vitz's excesssive determinism and that the kids could have been at fault for the bad relationships too.Also, the studies apply to "leaders" and prominent proponents. Any inferences to less militant atheists are more tenuous.Lastly, you Darwin Storm wrote:

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Well, the first quote is taken from an article that quite clearly indicates that the author is an apolgetic.

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Please see my initial post regarding the genetic fallacy and self-absorbtion. Once again, you further butress my initial post.

So, for people who claim the religious are intolerant, this isn't a lil intolerable? You have already admitted I should "defend". Ofcourse, it's not unbearable, infact - the opposite to that even. Quite barable, as, well, here I am. Nevertheless, it seems that the stamina of the none-believers needs some improving. As all I said is that you could be in denial of God, cos you don't want to face the truth of God, and I asked for evidence of atheism. Not that I doubt you are atheist, but you guys usually preach evidence yet you want atheism to escape being evidenced. Ho hum.You see, it's usually you folk that insist on evidence. And now it seems I am the bad guy for visiting it back. Yes. Dan Carroll also prayed, he also attributes it to youth in an attempt to rid the truth of the matter; that all people have prayed because they all know in God. Maybe a sneaky prayer was prayed when older even? Is atheism a tangible trait then?

Okay. Let's play along with Mike's line of thinking here for a second.I prayed when I was six years old. Therefore, I still know, deep down, that God exists.What Mike forgets is that I also spoke with Dilbert the Magic Talking Bird when I was six years old. By Mike's logic, deep down I also know that Dilbert really does exist.Thank you for showing me the truth, Mike. Tonight, Dilbert and I will finish work on that rocketship we were always working on. Sadly, I abandoned the design in attempt to deny the truth... that Dilbert the Magic Talking Bird is real, and that I spoke to him because I knew in him.I'm gonna need a little red wagon, some tinfoil, and two or three horseshoe magnets. I expect to reach Mars by Tuesday.

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"Good evening. I'm playing the role of Jesus; a man once portrayed on the big screen by Jeffery Hunter. You may remember him as the actor who was replaced by William Shatner on Star Trek. Apparently Mr. Hunter was good enough to die for our sins, but not quite up to the task of seducing green women."
-Stewie Griffin

And sadly, both Ken and Mike are still unable to tell us what this "God" thing is.Near as I can tell, it involves fire and sugary cereals. Also not unlike my early childhood...

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"Good evening. I'm playing the role of Jesus; a man once portrayed on the big screen by Jeffery Hunter. You may remember him as the actor who was replaced by William Shatner on Star Trek. Apparently Mr. Hunter was good enough to die for our sins, but not quite up to the task of seducing green women."
-Stewie Griffin

To: know more about Who God is and His nature here is a excellent source: Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible

Have you prayed recently?........--> Denial, incoming.

to: MiketheWhizYou, mikethewhiz, wrote:

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You see, it's usually you folk that insist on evidence. And now it seems I am the bad guy for visiting it back.

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My opening new string privilidges has been terminated. I will let readers decide if it was because of my "social science/atheism" thread. Please open a new thread entitled, "Is atheism above being examined? Is atheism exempt from skepticism and require special pleading for this exemption" If this title does not fit then a similar title will do.

Woefully unspecific. Again, Ken... I'm looking for what God IS, not what it DID.

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"Good evening. I'm playing the role of Jesus; a man once portrayed on the big screen by Jeffery Hunter. You may remember him as the actor who was replaced by William Shatner on Star Trek. Apparently Mr. Hunter was good enough to die for our sins, but not quite up to the task of seducing green women."
-Stewie Griffin

I'm guessing we're ruining this thread with our in-banter? Sorry, I'll refrain and let you get back to it. I'm not sure if I have my string opening capabilities back yet.(I was recently banned) May I suggest another forumer open this thread you seek if it becomes necessary?

to: danThis issue is fairly off topic. Please open a new thread.

No, Mike. I haven't. Have you spoken with your childhood imaginary friends recently?Y'know... other than God. Oh, goody. Mike's telling me what's true about my life again.

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"Good evening. I'm playing the role of Jesus; a man once portrayed on the big screen by Jeffery Hunter. You may remember him as the actor who was replaced by William Shatner on Star Trek. Apparently Mr. Hunter was good enough to die for our sins, but not quite up to the task of seducing green women."
-Stewie Griffin

Mike:re: your recent banning.It seems as if this board only wants softballs thrown out and cannot deal effectively with Christians on the board.