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Author Topic:   Israel/Lebanon/Gaza conflict (continuation thread)
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3954 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 76 of 300 (335033)
07-24-2006 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Buzsaw
07-23-2006 10:30 PM


Re: What you think?
Amnesty International
Certain abuses committed by the Israeli army constituted crimes against humanity and war crimes, including unlawful killings; extensive and wanton destruction of property; obstruction of medical assistance and targeting of medical personnel; torture; and the use of Palestinians as “human shields”. The deliberate targeting of civilians by Palestinian armed groups constituted crimes against humanity.
...
”Human shields’
Israeli soldiers continued to use Palestinians as “human shields” during military operations, forcing them to carry out tasks that endangered their lives, despite an injunction by the Israeli High Court banning the practice. A petition against the use of “human shields” submitted by Israeli and Palestinian human rights organizations to the Supreme Court in May 2002 was still pending at the end of 2004.
* In April, Israeli soldiers used 13-year-old Muhammed Badwan as a “human shield” during a demonstration in the West Bank village of Biddu. The soldiers placed the boy on the hood of their jeep and tied him to the front windscreen to discourage Palestinian demonstrators from throwing stones in their direction.
Amnesty International
Amnesty International welcomes the banning, by Israel's High Court, of the use of Palestinians as "human shields" by the Israeli army. The long-awaited High Court ruling of 6 October 2005 came in response to a petition filed in May 2002 by several Israeli and Palestinian human rights organizations seeking a ban of the practice, which endangered the lives of the Palestinians who were used as "human shields" and violated international law, notably Article 51 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
In recent years, Amnesty International investigated tens of cases where the Israeli army used Palestinians, children as well as adults, as "human shields" during military operations in towns and refugee camps throughout the Occupied Territories. Palestinian civilians were forced to walk in front of Israeli soldiers who, at times, fired their weapons while shielding themselves behind the civilians. As well, Palestinian civilians were made to enter houses ahead of Israeli soldiers to check for explosives or gunmen hiding inside, to inspect suspicious objects, to stay in their houses when Israeli soldiers took them over to use as sniper positions, or to enter the houses of wanted, possibly armed, Palestinians to tell them to surrender to Israeli forces.
The High Court failed to rule on the issue for three and a half years after receiving the petition calling for the practice to be outlawed. During this time, the Israeli army continued to use Palestinians as "human shields" and, in response to the petition, claimed that Palestinians were used only to perform tasks to which they agreed and which the military commander deemed safe. The army initially referred to the practice as "neighbourhood procedure" and subsequently as "prior warning procedure".
they wouldn't have to ban it if it weren't being done. but we all know how well soldiers listen to bans. the uniform code of conduct in this country strictly forbits torture... and even our president doesn't care.
We apologize for the inconvenience... - United States Department of State
Israeli forces used Palestinians as "human shields" in violation of applicable Israeli law. In 2002, the Israeli High Court of Justice granted an injunction against the use of Palestinians as "shields" for Israeli forces. The IDF admitted violations of existing procedures and reiterated that IDF forces "are absolutely forbidden to use civilians of any kind as a means of 'living shield' against gunfire or attack by the Palestinian side, or as 'hostages.'" However, IDF soldiers were permitted to seek consensual assistance of civilians in operations. Human rights groups asserted that Palestinians who consented often did so out of fear even if they were not coerced. Such Palestinians face the risk of being branded as collaborators.
even our state department accepts that this is true.
play
The Israeli army has signalled its intention to keep using Palestinian civilians as human shields in operations aimed at assassinating, arresting or kidnapping Palestinian political and resistance activists.
The Israeli High Court issued a ruling earlier this week barring the army from using Palestinian civilians as human shields, a practice used heavily in the West Bank, particularly since the outbreak of the Palestinian intifada or uprising in 2000.
On Tuesday, Israeli military sources said the army would press the High Court to reconsider the ruling on the ground that it would complicate "army activities" in the West Bank.
The army has sought to downplay the gravity of the "human shield practice", describing it as a "generally innocuous early warning procedure".
not that you'll give this source any credence...
Just a moment...
B'Tselem's initial investigation indicates that, during an incursion by Israeli forces into Beit Hanun, in the northern Gaza Strip, on 17 July 2006, soldiers seized control of two buildings in the town and used residents as human shield.
omg an israeli source. must just be self-hating jews.
btw, here it says it wasn't just a field development based on desperate situations (as though that would make it okay.).
Just a moment...
The soldiers in the field did not initiate this practice; rather, the order to use civilians as a means of protection was made by senior army officials.
here's a few victims
Human Shields
Suspected execution of Mahmud Kmel and use of Palestianians as human shields by IDF soldiers in Raba, Jenin District, December 2004
Tayil Muhammad Al-Bazur
Suleiman Ahmad Muhammad Qasrawi
Tulkarm Refugee Camp: IDF soldiers use Ahmad 'Asaf as a human shield, January 2004
Ahmad Abd al-Qader Ahmad 'Asaf
Nablus: IDF use 'Ula 'Awad, as a human shield, March, 2003
'Ula Kamal Shafik 'Awad
Nablus: IDF soldiers use Nabhan Najar as a human shield, December 2002
Nabhan Tawfiq 'Ali Najar
Hebron: IDF soldiers beat and abuse Palestinians in barbershop, December 2002
Wa'il Mahmoud Muhammad Abu Rumeileh
Bilal Ma'adi Daud a-Rajbi
Bassem Yasser Khalf Maswadeh
Muhammad Jibril Jamil a-Rajbi
Jenin: IDF soldiers use Khaled Kamil as a human shield, November 2002
Khaled Ibrahim Muhammad Kamil
IDF uses Husam Subuh and Tawfiq Salah as human shields, September 2002
Husam Salim Ahmad Ahmad Subuh
Tawfiq Zaqi Yusef Salah
IDF use Palestinian man, Mahmud Abu 'Arara, as a human shield, September 2002
Mahmoud Narmi Hamed Abu 'Arara
Jenin District: IDF use Shaf'a Ghanem, as a human shield, September 2002
Shaf'a Mahmud Shaf'a Ghanem
IDF use Samir Abu 'Amra and Ahmad Abu 'Amra as human shields, August 2002
Samir Muhammad Hmeidan Abu Amra
and here's a general list of this year's abuses.
2006
Israeli Soldiers Use Palestinians as Human Shields during Incursion into Beit Hanun, July 2006
Hazem 'Othman Qassem 'Ali
Laila Shqeirat attempts to conduct normal life routine while leaving in the besieged village of a-Sheikh Sa'ed, June 2006
Lila 'Abd al-Musa Shqeirat
Border Police beat bus driver Fadel 'Alan at when he brought disabled children home to a-Sheikh Sa'ed, May 2006
Fadel Muhammad 'Abdallah 'Alan
64 year-old resident of a-Sheikh Sa'ed with chest pains forced to walk two hours to reach the hospital
Ahmad Muhammad Mashur al-Mashahareh
Border Police officer beats Ra'id Fatafteh at checkpoint, injuring him, Hebron, May 2006
Ra'id Mahmoud 'Abd a-Salam Fatafteh
IDF soldiers beat two press photographers in Hebron, April 2006
Nayef Diab 'Abd al-Hafiz al-Hashlamouni
IDF shells inhabited area in Beit Lahiya, hits house, wounding four persons, 4 April 2006
Yusef Ahmad Salama Abu Shmas
Mustafa Ahmad Salama Abu Shmas
IDF soldiers shoot youth to death in the Qalandia refugee camp, Ramallah District, April 2006
Nader Naji Muhammad 'Othman
Soldiers fire at Palestinians sneaking into Israel to work, severely wounding one of them, Deir Ballut, April 2006
Maher Muhammad 'Abed al-Hamid Shaqarneh
Khaled Ahmad Muhammad Fanun
Settlers assault Palestinian shepherds sleeping in tents in the southern Hebron hills, 26 March 2006
'Aziz Musa Muhammad Shnaran
'Abd a-Rahman Musa Muhammad Shnaran
IDF soldiers shoot 7 year-old to death in al-Yamun, Jenin district, March 2006
Kamal 'Izzat Taher Zaid
Soldiers humiliated Palestinian detainees during IDF assault on Jericho Prison, March 2006
Fadi Fathi Yusef Abu Tabikh
Settlers beat Jamal a-Nawaj'a and throw stones at his mother and wife, in Susiya, March 2006
Jamal Isma'il a-Nawaj'ah
Samiha 'Ikab a-Nawaj'ah
'Alia Khamis a-Nawaj'ah
Plain Clothed Police beat two children in Abu Tor, East Jerusalem, 12 March 2006
Hamza Fawzi Musa 'Ewidah
IDF soldiers beat 7 Palestinian youths, 5 of them minors, Hebron area, March 2006
Tamer Yusef Muhammad 'Amru
Muhammad Maher Muhammad 'Abido
Soldiers disrupt work in charcoal factory near Jenin, February 2006
Muhammad Ahmad Ibrahim 'Abadi
IDF soldiers beat Palestinan youths at a checkpoint near the al-Fawwar refugee camp, February 2006
'Alaa Nafez 'Abd al-Majid Hilkawi
Alaa Khader Muhammad al-Ma'iwi
Soldiers confiscate identity card of Palestinian for remaining in the Jordan Valley without a permit, February 2006
Ra'id Hassan Muhammad Sawaftah
Border Police fire stun grenade at child, wounding him in the head, Shu'afat refugee camp, East Jerusalem, February. 2006
Ahmad Muhammad 'Isma'il al-'Amleh
Ibrahim Isma'il Muhammad al-'Amleh
IDF soldiers beat Faris 'Awidat while detaining him, 2 February 2006
Fares Kamel Salem 'Aweidat
Palestinian mother prevented from visiting her married daughter in the Jordan Valley, January 2006
Ni'meh 'Ali Salameh Abu Zaharah
IDF soldiers beat 17-year-old at a surprise checkpoint, January 2006
Jihad Mustafa Khaled Harzalla
and here's a list of publications.
Just a moment...
Human Shields
Soldiers' Abuse of Palestinians in Hebron
Case Study No. 17, December 2002
View summary
Download the report: DOC, Zipped RTF, PDF
Human Shield: Use of Palestinian Civilians as Human Shields in Violation of the High Court of Justice Order December 2003
Information Sheet, November 2002
View summary
Download the report: DOC, RTF, PDF
Operation Defensive Shield: Soldiers' Testimonies, Palestinian Testimonies
Journal, September 2002
Download the report: PDF
here's a few more random links
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israel faces human shield claim
http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2331

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Buzsaw, posted 07-23-2006 10:30 PM Buzsaw has not replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3954 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 77 of 300 (335035)
07-24-2006 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Nighttrain
07-24-2006 9:31 PM


Re: The more things change, the more----
i think the hamas government is making great efforts. however, as long as the us and israel proclaim it a false government and refuse to talk to them or send aid, they will be able to accomplish nothing and will eventually probably fall. and then palestine will be without a government once again and with all the more reason to fight. if we do not honor their attempts at government and peace, then we are at fault. we must try. we haven't even given this government the chance to change things. they came into power and we cut off all aid and communication and then israel started bombing again. they try to make a government and we dash it all up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Nighttrain, posted 07-24-2006 9:31 PM Nighttrain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Nighttrain, posted 07-25-2006 7:34 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1370 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 78 of 300 (335043)
07-24-2006 11:22 PM


hamas tv special
if anyone gets the discovery times channel (digital cable/satellite), they may be interested in turning it on right now. it's about 20 minutes in, and i have a feeling it would be very informative for both sides of this debate.
[edit] over now. quite interesting.
Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.
Edited by arachnophilia, : added edit


Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4020 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 79 of 300 (335110)
07-25-2006 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by macaroniandcheese
07-24-2006 10:30 PM


Re: The more things change, the more----
Hi, Bren. Palestine might have had a chance to live a near-normal (if dis-possessed) life if the great Arab unity as spouted by propagandists really existed. The Saudis have dumped a reported $70 billion into American institutions over the last three decades. With the massive windfall that has come from raised oil prices, you would think the Muslim world could find it easy to help out their little brother. Instead, they reject any attempt to normalise relations, keeping the Israel pot on the boil, and the Palestinians are reduced to living in camps and on handouts.Not a great advertisement for the unity of Islam.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-24-2006 10:30 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-25-2006 11:59 AM Nighttrain has replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3954 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 80 of 300 (335146)
07-25-2006 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Nighttrain
07-25-2006 7:34 AM


Re: The more things change, the more----
muslims states are no more unified than christians ones. that's a myth invented by fundies on either side about the ever-advancing and terrifying army and politik of allah. it's crap. all nations seek their own interests. helping palestine doesn't seem to be involved in anyones selfish goals.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Nighttrain, posted 07-25-2006 7:34 AM Nighttrain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Nighttrain, posted 07-25-2006 6:31 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4020 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 81 of 300 (335286)
07-25-2006 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by macaroniandcheese
07-25-2006 11:59 AM


Re: The more things change, the more----
Oops, the irony of life. The Saudis just announced a $250million donation to the Palestinians. Still, a drop in the bucket compared with what might be needed. Wonder if they put a rider on the advance--no missiles, no explosives?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-25-2006 11:59 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3954 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 82 of 300 (335297)
07-25-2006 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Nighttrain
07-25-2006 6:31 PM


Re: The more things change, the more----
the saudis put an anti-violence rider on something? i think not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Nighttrain, posted 07-25-2006 6:31 PM Nighttrain has not replied

MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6380 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 83 of 300 (335318)
07-25-2006 9:08 PM


So why is Israel targeting the UN?
As you will all have doubtless seen by now four UN observes have been killed by an Israeli air strike.
They weren't in a vehicle on the road, they were in a fixed UN observation post. Prior to the air strike Israel shelled the post 14 times[1].
There seems zero possibility that this was an accident - the Israelis deliberately went after a UN position. This begs the question as to why.
My guess is that Unifil (the UN observers in the area of the Lebanon/Israel border) will now be withdrawn, and this is what Israel wanted.
Although it's obviously only a guess on my part I suspect Israel is planning to do something or deploy some form of weapon in Southern Lebanon that it doesn't want anyone to witness. Given their demonstrable indifference to civilian suffering and world opinion that's kind of a chilling thought.
[1]Just for good measure they shelled a rescue team which went in to try and clear the rubble after the airstrike.

Oops! Wrong Planet

Replies to this message:
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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3937 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 84 of 300 (335339)
07-26-2006 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by MangyTiger
07-25-2006 9:08 PM


So why is Israel still using civilians as human shields?
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israelis accused of 'human shields' tactic
azem says he had little idea at the time exactly how long he was kept there. All he remembers was listening to the heavy gunfire around him, and counting the calls to prayer as they echoed over the area: one at lunchtime, one at tea-time, and one in the evening as the sun set. Twelve hours in all.
He says he expected to die any second. He still can't understand why, as civilians, they couldn't be kept in a room somewhere inside the house, where they would have been safer. But they put us in the middle of the clashes, he says. "There was no need for that."
I am sure buz and co will find a way to make all this seem reasonable. Gotta hold down the fort until the rapture!

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5845 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 85 of 300 (335376)
07-26-2006 6:01 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by MangyTiger
07-25-2006 9:08 PM


Re: So why is Israel targeting the UN?
As you will all have doubtless seen by now four UN observes have been killed by an Israeli air strike. They weren't in a vehicle on the road, they were in a fixed UN observation post. Prior to the air strike Israel shelled the post 14 times[1].
It gets more blatant and disturbing than that, from cnn article...
The U.N. observers killed when an Israeli bomb made a direct hit on their bunker in southern Lebanon Tuesday called an Israeli military liaison about 10 times in the six hours before they died to warn that the aerial attacks were getting close to their position, according to a U.N. officer.
After each call, the Israeli officer promised to have the bombing stopped, an officer at the U.N. Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) base in Noqoura said.
Finally, an Israeli bomb exploded directly on the U.N. post near Khiyam, killing four U.N. observers from Austria, Finland, Canada and China, the U.N. officer said.
and
"This coordinated artillery and aerial attack on a long established and clearly marked U.N. post at Khiyam occurred despite personal assurances given to me by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that U.N. positions would be spared Israeli fire," Annan said.
"Furthermore, General Alain Pelligrini, the U.N. force commander in south Lebanon, had been in repeated contact with Israeli officers throughout the day on Tuesday, stressing the need to protect that particular U.N. position from attack."
The timeline provided CNN by a U.N. officer in Lebanon showed the first bomb exploded about 200 yards from the U.N. outpost at 1:20 p.m. Tuesday, prompting the first call by the UNIFIL observers to their designated contact with the Israeli military. The officer said they were assured by the Israeli liaison that he would stop the attacks.
A series of about nine more bombs hit within 100 to 400 yards from the observers over the next several hours, with a call to the Israeli military following each explosion.
The U.N. base at Noqoura lost contact with the outpost at 7:40 p.m., apparently the time of the direct hit, the officer said.
So the Israelis not only knew about the place before their strikes began, but did nothing in the face of reports from that position that it was under fire.
In the face of condemnation, and despite an initial apology, they are now claiming that Hezbollah was the guilty party. Given fog of war I suppose its possible. But if it is discovered that israel was the guilty party it is not outside of previous practices. I am still puzzled by Israel supporters as that nation once bombed one of our own (US) ships, which they claimed was a mistake, at a time when they were engaged in grabbing territory in an illegal manner. This could be another one of those episodes... look for Israeli apologists to continue their work.
All of this said, its sort of shocking that it takes the bombing of a UN outpost to bring about criticism which should have been going on from the start.
I get that Hezbollah sucks. I don't like them and they did attack Israel first (if we ignore that it was bound up with what was going on in gaza). The point is that Israel is not supposed to be a terrorist organization and so it is bound by international rules of conduct. Because a terrorist group does X does not allow any and all means.
Their retaliation is heavily disproportionate to the action which initially occured against them, as well as the full threat posed to Israel by Hezbollah. What they have already done IN FACT to the Lebanese people, is more than Hezbollah could ever have done to Israel in theory. There seems to be some moral calculus that the life of an Israeli is worth more than any amount of any other life.
More so, they are targeting the people of Lebanon and their infrastructure which is specifically NOT targeting Hezbollah. Really the people of Lebanon do not become "potentially guilty" and so punishable because Hezbollah operates there.
Its that the UN and US let Israel get away with the acts they've already commited against the Lebanese which allows for such (relatively minor) tragedy and outrage as the bombing of a UN outpost. Condemning them for the outpost and not the rest, is pretty much an open hypocrisy, not to mention unlikely to bring any positive results.
Note, I'm not criticizing your post or suggesting your comments are limited to the outpost attack, just what appears to be happening in reaction to that attack among world leaders. They need to make the next step, which they should have taken initially, and force Israel to comply with Internation Law.

holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by MangyTiger, posted 07-25-2006 9:08 PM MangyTiger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by ikabod, posted 07-26-2006 7:05 AM Silent H has not replied
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ikabod
Member (Idle past 4519 days)
Posts: 365
From: UK
Joined: 03-13-2006


Message 86 of 300 (335385)
07-26-2006 7:05 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Silent H
07-26-2006 6:01 AM


Re: So why is Israel targeting the UN?
one very worring comment is that this bombing of A UN post has come at just the moment when a internation peace keeping force is being proposed for the south lebanon area ..some thing israel in the past has been strong opposed to .. the question now asked is was the UN post targeted to discorrage other nations fron offering peace keeping troops ...and thus allowing israel a free hand to "complete" its design ..

This message is a reply to:
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MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6380 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 87 of 300 (335412)
07-26-2006 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Silent H
07-26-2006 6:01 AM


Re: So why is Israel targeting the UN?
Nice post and I pretty much agree with all your points.
In the face of condemnation, and despite an initial apology, they are now claiming that Hezbollah was the guilty party. Given fog of war I suppose its possible.
I hadn't seen this yet. I suppose it's possible but it seems a bit unlikely - all the reports I've seen have said the UN soldiers were in a bomb shelter underneath the outpost. I'm not aware that Hezbollah has the capability of accurately delivering a bomb, shell or missile capable of destroying an underground bomb shelter.
There seems to be some moral calculus that the life of an Israeli is worth more than any amount of any other life.
I've thought this for a long time. Given the relative numbers of deaths it seems the 'value multiplier' is at least 10 - and as your 'any ammount' suggests I suspect there is no upper limit as far as Israel (and the current US administration) is concerned.
They need to make the next step, which they should have taken initially, and force Israel to comply with Internation Law.
Couldn't agree more. The trouble is only the US is capable of having any effect on Israel and it seems to me it currently doesn't want Israel to stop.
Some of the statements Rice has been making ('time for a new Middle East' etc.) make me wonder just how far/long the US will let - or even encourage - Israel go.

Oops! Wrong Planet

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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lfen
Member (Idle past 4703 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 88 of 300 (335422)
07-26-2006 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Silent H
07-26-2006 6:01 AM


Re: So why is Israel targeting the UN?
So the Israelis not only knew about the place before their strikes began, but did nothing in the face of reports from that position that it was under fire.
Well, judging from that report the Isrealis did a lot. They missed the first time and got a call. They kept trying and got closer but still the calls kept coming in and they just kept trying to bomb UN observers until finally they managed to achieve their premeditated murder. They even lied to the UN to keep them there so they could keep attempting to kill them! Utterly disgusting and reprehensible!
Nobody will do anything about it. This is a moral outrage but nothing new.
Remember when they attacked the USS Liberty that was monitoring during the 1967 War?
The USS Liberty was flying a large American flag in full view; there is no resemblance at all to the Egyptian steamer the Israelis used as an excuse; the weather was clear and since the attack went on for several hours it is impossible none of the attackers could have failed to notice the American markings and flag; also, recorded radio transmissions between Israeli pilots and their base contained confirmation of an American ship but orders were given to attack anyway. It was no accident.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=2006071405042...
They are doing the same thing. The chilling thing is that neither the UN nor the US will do anything. This was premeditated murder. They lied to the UN and kept bombing until they killed them which was their intent all along, just like with the Liberty. There should be a war crimes charge brought against the Isreal Government and military for this. But there won't be.
lfen

This message is a reply to:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3954 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 89 of 300 (335477)
07-26-2006 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by MangyTiger
07-25-2006 9:08 PM


Re: So why is Israel targeting the UN?
why? to end international scrutiny. and you know what happens without international scrutiny?
i'm thinking of a phrase that begins with 'crimes' and ends with 'against humanity'.
if i had my real computer with all my sources, i'd start writing a paper on the potentially impending genocide. i've already written one paper analyzing and applying the process... i suppose now is the time for the next. i just really thought i'd have more time.
*edit*
i found a copy of my paper on my journal. here's what i was referring to..
The literature suggests that there is a consistent set of predictive factors that are common to states in which genocides occur. These countries tend to follow this model: a non-democratic government that demonstrates a pattern of discriminatory and exclusionary policy, a “history of... violent ethnic conflict," and a strong foreign ally that helps shield the country from international pressures.
“More proximately, an ethnic rebellion has started or a war. The dominant group”the future genocide perpetrators who control the state”engages in a massive hate and fear propaganda campaign in the media in which the future victims are dehumanized, demonized, and targeted. The dominant group organizes paramilitary militias; with the help of the army, it arms, trains, and indoctrinates militia members for killing the target group. These are the most common and most visible indicators of early warning."
non-democratic government?
no not really. but somehow i just don't see that being a problem.
patterns of descriminatory and exclusionary policy?
haha, yeah.
strong foreign ally to sheild from international pressures?
that would be us.
ethnic rebellion or war?
yes.
massive hate and fear propaganda?
yes.
paramilitary militias?
i don't think they need to. the idf is sufficient. but who knows.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by MangyTiger, posted 07-25-2006 9:08 PM MangyTiger has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 300 (335578)
07-26-2006 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by MangyTiger
07-25-2006 9:08 PM


Re: So why is Israel targeting the UN?
1. There is to be an investigation. Israel says it was an accident. In war messages get missdirected, et al. Let the investigation produce the case for Israel's claim before convicting them as the secretary general has done.
2. Imo, the UN which has consistently been anti-Israel, anti-US and pro-Islam/Arab had no business being in the middle of a war zone, allegedly observing. They could have done that by air.
They were in the enemy zone and who knows who they were protecting, informing and otherwise helping against Israel. Israel warned that all noncombatants should go north and evacuate. The UN contingent should have heeded the warning.
The UN cannot be trusted and never could in the past. The secretary general is the one who was doing the shennagans with Saddam Hussein, enriching both of them. He has no business at the helm of the world body, given his character and record.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by MangyTiger, posted 07-25-2006 9:08 PM MangyTiger has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by jar, posted 07-26-2006 9:49 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 96 by Silent H, posted 07-27-2006 4:35 AM Buzsaw has replied

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