Is Christ cruel? (For member Schrafinator)

And that's fine. Following that logic, Christ/GOD isn't cruel, since He doesn't exist. Is that what you mean? Or do you mean that non-believers get into heaven because God forgives all?

The later. With certain provisions. Your personal behavior will affect your chance for salvation, but the bar for admittance is far lower for Non-Christians than Christians.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

An interesting idea. Why do you think that - is it because 'Christians should know better'?

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Oops! Wrong Planet

Not exactly yet partially. Christians should have a moral guide, others may as well but it's a given if you're in the club. In addition you need to know the secret handshake and stuff, and, of course, believe in GOD.That is one big reason IMHO why Schraf has a high probability of being saved while most Christians don't have even a hope.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Why did Jesus bother to come at all then since his living and dying and rising again didn't do anything more for those who trust in Him than an unbeliever will get by completely denying Him?

GOD should love you more than She loves the Atheist that denies Her? Ain't you somthing special?Jesus came as GOD's sign of salvation for ALL mankind. Jesus' life, death and resurrection were a message to us all. His teachings were about how we should live, "Love GOD and love others as you love yourself".It really is as simple as that.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Gee, thanks Jar for offering but no one has convinced me that it is a good place to go.However, it does seem fair to lower the "goodness" bar for those who do it without consideration of eternal reward or eternal punishement. Seems to me that this should lower the limit a looong way.

Well, I can't imagine that anyone would be forced to go. But consider; there will be a whole lot fewer Christians there than here. Well, I think that was exactly the message Jesus was trying to teach. That's the whole issue about works. If you do works for the reward at the end, if you believe in GOD for the beni's, then odds are you'll find that those works, that belief counts for zilch. Do good because it's the right thing to do.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Which is precisely what an atheist with a love of altruism does!

Jesus didn't need to come to get across that message. It's in OT religion as well as every other religion. What a waste of His time and perfect life and death and resurrection just to bring that bit of sanctimonous trivia, and what nonsense to claim that such a non-message had the power to captivate multiplied millions over the millennia. Does your church actually teach this pap or is it your own religion?

Yup.That's why they are more likely to be saved than a Christian.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

It's called Christianity. Maybe you've heard of it.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Well, because of the message, not the messanger. Too many christians ignore the Message about Christ, that of brotherhood of man, charity to the poor, and kindness, but rather worship 'god made flesh'.

The message IS God made flesh. For starters.

That's not true Faith, at least it's not how I see it.Christ's death on the cross is the divine event that tore open the way to heaven for believers and unbelievers alike. In other words, if Christ didn't die and raise himself from the depths of hades, it wouldn't matter how much faith either one of us had in Christ -- we'd still be damned.To be more simple, the answer to your question is because he is still the savior.As far as I can tell, the early church was mainly concerend with spotting references to Christ in the Hebrew Scriptures in order to demonstrate that Christ was active amongst the Israelites well before his incarnation in the virgin. Many of the early church fathers saw Christ walking in the garden with Adam and Eve, walking with Enoch and Noah, conversing with Abraham, standing in the flames with Daniel's friends, etc.In other words, they were exited about the knowledge of their redeemer finally manifesting among them and revealing himself so clearly to them. Or, stated more plainly: The mystery of all the ages was finally revealed.In this regard, this doesn't necessarilly imply that no one was "saved" prior to Christ's death and resurrection. Christ's sacrifice on the cross stretches throughout the entire scope of human history.More to the point, it seems more reasonable for some to equate the coming of Christ with the epiphany (or the revelation) of their salvation. In other words, Christ's coming was the manifestation of the revelation of the Savior who had been saving whichever people were saved everywhere all along since the beginning.Now with this revelation we as Christians hear the call of the Holy Spirit to share this revelation with all who are willing to listen.Others do not know who their redeemer is. We do -- and that's why we must take very careful Spirit lead precautions before speaking to one who soundly doubts. If we push them away from Christ, that's our fault -- not theirs.Stating this more clearly, I think that one can easilly proclaim Christ as savior without simultaniously condemning those who do not know him to hell. In some regards I weep for the church in our modern day. In many ways we've become just as guilty of the "self-righteousnes" that our Christian Scriptures rail against the Jewish people of Jesus' time. This message has been edited by Mr. Ex Nihilo, 06-09-2005 12:01 AM