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Author Topic:   The Book of Revelation, Hallucination, and Heresy
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 46 of 57 (128307)
07-28-2004 6:10 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Nasa
07-16-2004 10:05 PM


[In many of the popular music trends of the past twenty years or so there is a cry concerning a: Loss of direction, lost hope, no faith, a wanting to live for ever, a bitterness to an unseen lie, a hate in being alone, to have satisfaction, a constant craving, a sin, of help, of a sound of silence, a feeling of falling, a feeling of fear, a wanting to go home, a need of peace and an unseen enemy. The chorus from a famous song sums it up. ]
You realise if you play country and western music backwards, his wife and dog come back, and he finds his pickup truck? However it only works with CW. Other music played backwards reveals the work of Satan.
Edited to include quote
This message has been edited by Nighttrain, 07-28-2004 05:12 AM

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Spiritman.8m
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 57 (129398)
08-01-2004 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by pink sasquatch
07-07-2004 1:47 AM


The 'Jesus' of 'Revelation' kill children.
The people who are growing in the Lord are as children growing up in their Faith. This 'Woman' was leading people into depravity and those following her practices were not following the Lord by His Spirit. These ones were not His children but children of a spiritual whore, not physical children!

Spiritman.8m

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by pink sasquatch, posted 07-07-2004 1:47 AM pink sasquatch has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Nighttrain, posted 08-14-2004 3:23 AM Spiritman.8m has not replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 48 of 57 (133789)
08-14-2004 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Spiritman.8m
08-01-2004 7:24 PM


Re: The 'Jesus' of 'Revelation' kill children.
Gee, wish I`d said that.

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 49 of 57 (133889)
08-14-2004 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by pink sasquatch
07-07-2004 1:47 AM


Since I am not versed in the New Testament
But this deficiency doesn't seem to stop you from making conclusions.
The people who reject the book of Revelation all have one common denominator: No belief in the existence of miracles.
I wonder if this woldview fact has anything to do with their rejection ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by pink sasquatch, posted 07-07-2004 1:47 AM pink sasquatch has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by pink sasquatch, posted 08-16-2004 2:40 AM Cold Foreign Object has replied

  
Aurelie
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 57 (134101)
08-15-2004 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Buzsaw
07-17-2004 1:33 AM


Problems?
You said that there are problems in the Seventh Day Adventist church regarding prophecy? Could you please provide documentation. Thanks.
This message has been edited by Aurelie, 08-15-2004 02:43 PM

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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6022 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 51 of 57 (134243)
08-16-2004 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Cold Foreign Object
08-14-2004 5:50 PM


But this deficiency doesn't seem to stop you from making conclusions.
The people who reject the book of Revelation all have one common denominator: No belief in the existence of miracles.
WILLOWTREE, WILLOWTREE, why am I not surprised to get such a reactionary reply from you?
If you actually read the post you replied to, you'll see I didn't make any conclusions, I simply asked questions. Also, I'd be interested to see what leads you to believe that I reject miracles...
Do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion?
One question I've had since the OP: how do we know which parts of Revelation are symbolic or code, and which parts should be taken literally?

This message is a reply to:
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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 52 of 57 (138298)
08-30-2004 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by pink sasquatch
08-16-2004 2:40 AM


One question I've had since the OP: how do we know which parts of Revelation are symbolic or code, and which parts should be taken literally?
Depends.
I happen to be very proficient in Revelation.
The Book of Revelation will make no sense to anyone who does not believe in miracles and who is not well versed in the books of Daniel, Zechariah, and others.
Do you believe that there will be a "rapture" of persons who belong to Christ ?

This message is a reply to:
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dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 57 (141303)
09-09-2004 6:47 PM


pink sasquatch wrote:
"One question I've had since the OP: how do we know which parts of Revelation are symbolic or code, and which parts should be taken literally?"
Some verses in Revelation are explained in subsequent passages, for example:
Revelation 12:3-4 says:
"And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth."
The identity of the "red dragon" is revealed here:
Revelation 12:7-9
"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
Perhaps we could look at a particular verse that interests you and try to figure it out.

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 54 of 57 (148956)
10-10-2004 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
07-07-2004 3:39 PM


Continuation of our Topic from Who can be Saved?
Jar..sometimes you baffle me. You begin to show us how spiritual that the Bible is, and then you say things like
I don't believe that you can take either the OT or NT as literal. And from a religious point of view, it simply does not matter if anything in the Bible is true or really happened.
I suppose that you mean this statement to include the Resurrection of Jesus Christ? The fact is, without Jesus Christ, Christianity is at best a good philosophy. The power of it is lost, however. We do not save ourselves, nor do we get to Heaven ONLY by our good works.I know what your pet parable says in the Sheep/Goats Parable, but my point about that Parable was that it applied to the Jews and the rest of the Nations at the time of Revelation. Jesus was addressing His Disciples, all of whom were NOT part of the Body of Christ of Gentile Believers started by the Apostle Paul. Google Dispensational sites for more explanations concerning this belief. Getting back to Dispensationalism,
www.dispensationalism.com writes:
Dispensationalists will define 3 key dispensations, (1) The Mosaic Law, (2) The present age of Grace, and (3) the future Millennial Kingdom. Most will agree about the first two, and covenantal believers will disagree about the third, seeing this as the 'eternal state'. (Since they don't see a literal Millennial Kingdom, the future literal fulfillment of the Davidic Kingdom.)
A greater breakdown of specific dispensations is possible, giving most traditional dispensationalists (7) recognizable dispensations.
  • Innocence - Adam+Eve up to the Fall
  • Conscience - After man sinned, up to the flood
  • Government - After the flood, man allowed to eat meat, death penalty instituted
  • Promise - Abraham up to Moses and the giving of the Law
  • Law - Moses to the cross
  • Grace - The cross to the Millennial Kingdom
  • Millennial Kingdom - A 1000 year reign of Christ on earth centered in Jerusalem
    Remember that ALL of the Bible was written for us, yet ALL of the Bible was not written TO us. some parts are written to Jews, some parts to the Church and other Gentile Believers/non believers.
  • While not everyone needs to agree on this breakdown, the point from the dispensationalists view is that God is working with man in a progressive way. At each stage man has failed to be obedient to the responsibilities set forth by God. (administration, dispensation) The method of salvation, justification by faith alone, never changes through the time periods. The responsibilities God gives to man does change. The Jews were to be obedient to the Law if they wished God's blessing of Land. If they were disobedient, they would be scattered. However, God promises to always bring them back to the land promised to Abraham in the Abrahamic Covenant. After the cross, believers no longer need the Law, which pointed to Christ as the one that would take the burden of sin. We are under a new Law, the Law of Grace. We have more revelation about God, and are no longer required to keep ceremonial laws given to the Jews.
    Revelation, according to most dispensationalists, was not written TO us the Church.
    Revelation is for the Jews and the unbelievers left on Earth AFTER the Rapture of the Church. The book of Revelation after the letters to the seven churches is a prophecy concerning events that will occur during the last seven years before the second coming or 70th week. (Futurist) This 70th week is called the tribulation period. The last half of this week (the last 3.5 years) is the Great Tribulation spoken of in Dan. 9 and in the olivet discourse (Matt. 24). This tribulation period is a time when God will pour out his wrath on a sinful world.
    This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-10-2004 06:01 PM
    This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-10-2004 06:03 PM

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 8 by jar, posted 07-07-2004 3:39 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 55 by jar, posted 10-10-2004 7:24 PM Phat has replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 55 of 57 (148964)
    10-10-2004 7:24 PM
    Reply to: Message 54 by Phat
    10-10-2004 6:46 PM


    Re: Continuation of our Topic from Who can be Saved?
    jar writes:
    I don't believe that you can take either the OT or NT as literal. And from a religious point of view, it simply does not matter if anything in the Bible is true or really happened.
    To which Phatboy replies:
    quote:
    I suppose that you mean this statement to include the Resurrection of Jesus Christ?
    Sure. Religion is a belief system. A belief system. It's not based on what is fact, but rather what we believe. If the stories in the Bible were only tales, would that have any effect on the value of the message itself?
    If you look at the Nicene Creed, it begins "I believe". It does not say, these are the facts, it says, I believe.
    but my point about that Parable was that it applied to the Jews and the rest of the Nations at the time of Revelation.
    Well, there is the exclusionist philosophy coming in again. Why do you believe that the Jews and the rest of the Nations are somehow different?
    First, was Jesus a Jew?
    Second, were his disciples Jews?
    Let's take a look though at Revelations, since that is the topic of this thread.
    Revelations 1:
    1: The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
    2: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
    3: Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
    Look at the statement, "things which must shortly come to pass", "for the time is at hand". This is talking about things that the author believe will take place in his own lifetime, not some distant future.

    Aslan is not a Tame Lion

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 54 by Phat, posted 10-10-2004 6:46 PM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 56 by Phat, posted 10-11-2004 11:36 AM jar has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 56 of 57 (149114)
    10-11-2004 11:36 AM
    Reply to: Message 55 by jar
    10-10-2004 7:24 PM


    Re: Continuation of our Topic from Who can be Saved?
    jar writes:
    Religion is a belief system. A belief system. It's not based on what is fact, but rather what we believe. If the stories in the Bible were only tales, would that have any effect on the value of the message itself?
    1 Cor 15:1-2 writes:
    Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
    So is it the Faith in the Gospel or the power of the Gospel Himself?
    Acts 1:7-8 writes:
    But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
    Notice that one receives power directly from the Holy Spirit and not just in a Belief. One can have Faith in a rosary and yet they are having faith in a bunch of glass beads..And now a misunderstood scripture..
    Mark 11:22-25= "Have faith in God," Jesus answered. "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."
    The key phrase is Have faith in God...not "have faith in faith". In other words, one who is so intimately aware of Gods Will would not try and move mountains. They would only speak what they heard in their heart.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 55 by jar, posted 10-10-2004 7:24 PM jar has replied

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    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 57 of 57 (149163)
    10-11-2004 5:25 PM
    Reply to: Message 56 by Phat
    10-11-2004 11:36 AM


    This is still way off topic.
    and I think we need to find a better place than in a discussion on Revelations.
    I just don't quite know where it should go.
    All good questions though and as soon as we find the right place I'll be glad to outline my opinions.

    Aslan is not a Tame Lion

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 56 by Phat, posted 10-11-2004 11:36 AM Phat has not replied

      
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