Justify damnation, dammit!

Make up your mind.

Intent is being considered in the crime he is charged with, but not in the punishment he will receive. It is during the sentencing for the crime that Hell enters the picture. The Bible says you are already guilty, intent or no intent. And there is only one form of punishment, no time off for good behavior. (Unless you’re a Catholic). Butter plead for mercy I say.

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Jason B

In the bible, it makes it clear that God is justice. And God will have vengeance. Therefore, with the list of alledged hell-dwellers, are the condemners existent?The list you make is whos?Where does it say homosexuals and dishwasher bitches are headed toward hell?But rather - we are all headed toward hell. How about that. First take the apple and mix it with the orange and the lemon. The cross shall not be made of none-effect for the individual. Therefore - justify anyone I ask you, you'll find it hard. What then shall we do? Except it all become a tastey juice drink who shall sup it? For one lemon will say yuck, and choke on the apple, and the orange will say no, and not like the bitter lemon taste. Does the apple choke on the lemon? Does the lemon complain of the orange? No - but the one who drinks and suffers them. Then is the juice purified, through the drinking and suffering of all this bitter juice. Therefore, I will let the drinker decide whether the juice is tastey. I will let the drinker purify the juice, because I drink not. We are fruit.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 07-23-2004 03:32 PM

Uh... guy, take another look at the difference in sentencing there. I have a sneaking suspicion you may have missed some subtle distinctions between the two. Wow. The state of Florida is more rational about meting out punishment than God. That's messed up.This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 07-23-2004 03:46 PM

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"Egos drone and pose alone, Like black balloons, all banged and blown
On a backwards river the infidels shiver in the stench of belief.
And tell my mama I'm a hundred years late; I'm over the rails and out of the race
The crippled psalms of an age that won't thaw are ringing in my ears"
-Beck

*smacks Mike in the head a couple times*MIKE! Come back to us, guy! We lost ya there for a sec!

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"Egos drone and pose alone, Like black balloons, all banged and blown
On a backwards river the infidels shiver in the stench of belief.
And tell my mama I'm a hundred years late; I'm over the rails and out of the race
The crippled psalms of an age that won't thaw are ringing in my ears"
-Beck

Just don't incorporate a literal interpretation.

If you can believe that there will be an end to sin, you can take Malachi 4 literally.
Burning in hell for eternity, is not an end to sin. Sitting on the dock by the bay, is also not ending it.
There will be an end, and sin will never happen again, and no one in God's kingdom will ever again be reminded of it.
It is illogical to think there will be peace in this universe with a few bil asses on fire somewhere. Right?

Okay, this topic really isn't staying on track very well...Would the talk about the convicted guy and the lemons and apples please cease? I wanna see somebody try and justify the alledged damnation(according to scripture) of the people I mentioned in the first post. Buzzsaw basically said I was a terrible preacher, but other than that nobody's really tried to argue for it.Come on! Where are you bible bumpers when I need you?!

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)

.......But alas, they don't have a supernatural book proven to be so by archeological findings and fulfilled prophecies telling them that Jesus is the only way to God and his heaven via his vicarious atonement for sin.

Yeah, like the Flood and Jerico and Ai and and Exodus and all the other things that have been proven completely wrong.Buz, God is loving. He has reached out to people time after time. There is no reason to think he did not do so again and again and that he will continue to do so in the future.The only time Jesus really showed anger, really showed violence, was against the very religious, those in the Temple.Are you one of the chosen in the Temple?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

1. Buz did not say you were a terrible preacher. Buz said you preach a different message, implying that you were not a Bible preacher, but one who's message is antagonistic towards the Bible. You preach that message as well as any here in town, imo.2. Obviously you're not a good reader. Go back and read all I said about Biblical hell. I did address the topic, whether you liked what I said or not.

My post was serious believe it or not. And answered your question. Well, according to me anyway. My point is, that there is no such damnation in the scripture, of the people you listed. I don't recall the mentioning of homosexuals as an exclusive example of a damned person.What I meant by the fruit, is that we are all different people, yet we are all sinners. It is only Christ that drinks (judges/justice) - therefore it is only Christ who is the way (to the father) the truth and the life.Therefore, as Buz said,"Why does the creature need to justify anything his creator does?"If it is only people's opinions who say your list of people are doomed, (cos I certainly don't recall Christ picking on individuals) then the problem is the creature, not the creator.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 07-23-2004 08:10 PM

There is "no condemnation" in Christ and in Christ we are "passed from death to life."

I agree.But what I meant is, that we were ALL condemned, and now by grace we are saved. But I am trying to drive it home, that no man is in a position to judge nor boast. Therefore, untill Christ lets me into heaven, I won't take anything for granted by judging others.

There is the text of I Corinthians 6:9 where the Paul, the apostle of Jesus has a list of those who will not inherit God's kingdom. Included in the list are the effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men and fornicators. The textual implication of the NT however does teach forgiveness and salvation to sinful people who repent and receive that salvation via Christ. So in that sense, you are right. It's not a list of sins that condemn a person, but the refusal of the remedy. The list I have referenced above pertains to persons who've never repented and forsaken the sins listed in the text. After all, the spiritual birth or new birth of a person in Christ is suppose to change the way the person lives. Otherwise, according to the apostle James it's a bogus faith.

Just because I don't believe the events happened doesn't mean I can't preach the lesson that the story teaches.Will be edited to add in replies to what you said earlier Personal attack, irrelevant to discussion. This is why I didn't read the rest of it. I know I should've read it anyway, but please address the point from beginning to end. This is free for al and I will have a part in whatever the fuck I want. I can still teach the lessons that the stories teach, and nobody's going to tell me I have some divine blockade that won't let me. I wouldn't side with a creator that would condemn so freely. I'm scared just typing this, but I can't be a lapdog for some invincible entity that toys with our eternal consciousness. I just can't. Maybe we all are from Noah's kids. This possibility has nothing to do with the arguement. So you're saying just because you're afraid to defy something you can't defeat you'll preach it? I'm sorry, but I won't lower myself to such cowardice. I don't care who does it, injustice is always injustice, and I'm sure the truly highest Power in the universe knows that. Cowards.Abso-fuckin'-lutely, Grade-A, prime-cut, Canadian COWARDS!
(No offense, Ned!)No, I'm glad they were willing to risk their lives to spread the message. That's wonderful faith. I respect them. And I'm running the same risk as they are, infact, maybe more of one by challenging an injustice knowing the possibility of it being God's decree. Am I scared? Fuck yes, I'm terrified! But I can't ignore this kind of wrongdoing. I do believe in the God described in the Bible, but I'm not sure what I believe his methods are. That's why I opened this thread, and came to this forum to begin with. But unlike those prophets, I won't spread the 'joy' of a message I don't agree with. I'm no walking billboard that can be bribed, and I won't let any kind of eternal bribery make me content with preaching about sending good people to eternal torture. Good for you; I honestly hope the best awaits you from the bottom of my heart. I however won't take the safe way if I have doubt that it's the morally correct way. But enough about Mr. Preach. Justify the alledged damnation or you have no arguement.So far, I have come to the conclusion that this immoral damnation, whether fact or horrible fiction, is in fact immoral. Somebody please try to convince me otherwise.This message has been edited by Born2Preach, 07-23-2004 08:58 PM

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)