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Author | Topic: Luke and Matthews geneologies | |||||||||||||||||||||||
iconoclast2440 Inactive Member |
quote: np.
quote: I was being sardonic above. I don't need your input here. There isn't any way to clearly explain these biblical problems without more problems arising.
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w_fortenberry Member (Idle past 6134 days) Posts: 178 From: Birmingham, AL, USA Joined: |
quote: If you do not need someone's input, then why do you debate? Perhaps you should instead spend your time writing a book in which you make known to the world your infallible knowledge.
quote: Can anyone direct me to a single post in which iconoclast2440 has referenced an outside source for his arguments? I have not been able to find one. Iconoclast2440, how many books have you read regarding this topic? What are their titles? Who wrote them? Have you read from all sides of the argument? Have you even read the Bible all the way through? By the way, you did not answer my previous question about whether you had read any of the early church fathers.
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iconoclast2440 Inactive Member |
quote: I never claimed i didn't I needed anyone's input.
quote: Why should i do that when you already have your bible?
quote: Lol i have mentioned Micah, Matthew, Luke, Jeremiah, talkorigins, Deut, Leviticus, and Exodus.
quote: Books by voltaire, Nietzsche, and Bertrand Russel. I have listen to and watched countless debates over the last two years concerning topics such as this.
quote: Bertrand Russel: Why I am not a ChristianNietzsche: 4th Edition Voltaire: The Portable Voltaire Yes i have read the bible all the way through. Yes i have read both sides of the arguments. Hence the reason i call your stance bs. By the way, you did not answer my previous question about whether you had read any of the early church fathers.
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w_fortenberry Member (Idle past 6134 days) Posts: 178 From: Birmingham, AL, USA Joined: |
Iconoclast2440, due to the nature of your responses throughout our brief discussion, I have decided that I will no longer hold open debate with you.
Your attitude has not been the least conductive to a healthy debate.
quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: You have also shown either an unwillingness or an inability to read previous posts. Reference posts 83 and 84 as well as 107, 108, and 109. You have failed to provide evidence in response to direct questions regarding your position.
quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: I will not reply to any of your future posts unless I see a noticable change in your disposition.
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iconoclast2440 Inactive Member |
Forten
do you think yourself terribly clever? It seems you are using my attitude as a scape goat.
quote: Exuse me? Evidence to back my assertions? I don't need to prove an axiom to you forten. i have shown you why the genealogies contradict if you don't want to except that what else must i do?
quote: You are a waste of time forten. Perhaps you ought to spend some time researching jewish law/tradition before you start discussing how there can be a kingship with female contributers to genealogy.
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funkmasterfreaky Inactive Member |
The Gen 3:15 verse refers to the curse God put apon man and the serpant not the coming messiah. Why do you say that? Satan managed to decieve man, tricking him into disobeying God. God cursed man but promised that the seed of the woman would crush satan. Which Jesus did at the cross. So the seed of a woman (virgin birth) was the one to crush satan's grip on the world. ------------------Saved by an incredible Grace.
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iconoclast2440 Inactive Member |
quote: You are clearly didn't reading the entire verse.
quote: You left out the part where the snake strikes the heel of the man. What is this significance of that part of the verse? The word enmity means: Deep-seated, often mutual hatred. This verse is discussing a schism between man and the snake not the coming of a savior -- a promise that didn't come until a lot later in Genesis. There is no mention of the savior in this verse at all. The same goes for Isaiah 7:14. Infering these verses are messienic is a part of christian propaganda. Christians appear to take a good number of verses at random and try to apply them to their savior. Unfortunately for them there are educated people out there who know better. [This message has been edited by iconoclast2440, 01-28-2003]
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iconoclast2440 Inactive Member |
Funky though Christians in these threads want to deny it their genealogies for christ are entirey flawed you can rest assured there is no substance to their arguments.
Forten for example is entirely ignorant of jewish law as are most christians. Notice you won't find any christians out there debating genealogy with jewish scholars -- they'll try and avoid it! Here is the information we have: Only men can determine lineage (Numbers 1:16-19)
quote: There are numerous examples of such practices being held within the jewish communities throughout the Bible: The story of Onan's wife, the daughters of Zelophchad (Numbers 27, 36), Queen Athaliah (II Kings 11; II Chronicles 22), ect. From what we understand about jewish laws and the endless contradictory and impossible claims of the NT we can determine Jesus was either a fraud or the virgin birth never occured. [This message has been edited by iconoclast2440, 01-28-2003]
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funkmasterfreaky Inactive Member |
After spending alot of time on this discussion when I first came to this board, I can see a purpose for both genealogies.
This last verse that I used may or may not be relevant. However I believe that having both genealogies serves the purpose of showing that Jesus came for the Jews, as well as for the gentiles. I know that you disagree, and again I'm going to have to bow out of this conversation. However I do not see this as a contradiction, or anything to discredit the fact that Jesus Christ came to save all those who would believe. ------------------Saved by an incredible Grace.
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iconoclast2440 Inactive Member |
quote: Funky what are you doing? We have already established Jesus' birth is an impossibility.
quote: With good reason Funky. Do you even have a shread of evidence to back up your claims?
quote: You are choosing to deny fact? Does this make believing more palatable? [This message has been edited by iconoclast2440, 01-28-2003]
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funkmasterfreaky Inactive Member |
meh
------------------Saved by an incredible Grace.
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Funkie, what is this? Several times this has been your response and it makes no sense to me. There must be a secret? ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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judge Member (Idle past 6471 days) Posts: 216 From: australia Joined: |
judge:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are you sure you want to stand behind this statement John? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John:Certainly, until proven wrong... Judge:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Inscriptions dating to the year 6A.D have been found using the estrangelo script (which the Peshitta is written in). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John:Please cite a source for those inscriptions. What I have found contradicts your statement. here is a link to a picture of the inscription in question. Peshitta Forum - Oldest Estrangela Inscription II
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5935 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Thank you for the re direct John.
I have just spent 45 minutes skimming through this so if I missed the answer to my question please forgive me. Concerning the birth of jesus and estabishment to abraham.Does anyone know the lineage of the holy spirit since he is after all the father?
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Brian Member (Idle past 4986 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hi,
The Holy Spirit doesn't have a lineage. It is an eternal entity, the only offspring it has had is Jesus apparently. But the thing is, the Holy Spirit, Jesus and God are all the same thing! lol So does the song 'I'm my own Granpa' ring any bells? Brian.
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