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Author Topic:   The relevence of Biblical claims to science
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 166 of 192 (173474)
01-03-2005 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Maestro232
12-23-2004 12:20 PM


Re: Great Debate?
^Bump^

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Maestro232, posted 12-23-2004 12:20 PM Maestro232 has not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 167 of 192 (173485)
01-03-2005 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by Maestro232
12-22-2004 3:41 PM


Re: The next step then...
Maestro writes:
Friend, look at how many of you there are responding to me, and how many of me there are. It is easy to get overwhelmed and sidetracked.
This is a problem at EvC, being a forum that is overpopulated by science-minded people. I brought this to people's attention over 6 months ago here but it looks like things haven't changed a bit.
I've been trying to read through this thread to get a sense of where your positions are and how others are replying to them and I must admit that I am, too, overwhelmed by the number of replies to everything you've said. It is also hard to see where this thread is going, considering that you guys have been talking about basically the same damn thing for days now, with half the info repeated at least twice in different terms.
To Admin:
Perhaps it is best that we have a great debate going between the 2 of them. I think Maestro is confident in his position enough for it.
ABE
Umliak writes:
There are many languages because the heaven above was being approached by Nim-Rod and his tower of Babel.
Froggie replies:
Unfortunately for you we know that isn't true, because that story makes predictions that don't hold up. For instance we know that we've constructed taller towers, or reached greater altitudes, than anything that existed in Biblical times. When Shuttle astronauts approach the "heaven above", they don't come back speaking any other languages than the ones they all went up with.
Umliak then tries to change the subject:
You don't anything about the Bible, do you? One might wonder why you bother.
Well, first of all, there is evidence shown about men living with dinosaurs. Your current accepted truth tells you that dinosaurs existed loooooong before humans. So how can you trust a scientific theory based on real archaeological finds over another scientific archaeological find which does not use a theory, but instead eliminates the theory (the lie) and continues the scientific proof?
What I just showed you is an example of how creationists often try to dodge a point. In a way, evos sometimes allow this to happen by making 30 different replies to the person and let the dodging slip right through.
I say a great debate at this point is best.
This message has been edited by Lam, 01-03-2005 15:19 AM

This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 168 of 192 (173504)
01-03-2005 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by coffee_addict
01-03-2005 3:04 PM


Re: The next step then...
I agree from the point of view of minimizing the imbalance in numbers. My reluctance derives from Maestro's inability to coherently describe his position or provide an example - not an auspicious way to begin a Great Debate, and certainly not deserving of moderator time.
I gave this thread a bump because it had gotten buried over the holidays, I wanted to be sure we were done with it. I'd been assuming that Maestro was hanging out on an empty campus while awaiting his last final by spending his spare time here, and that he wouldn't be returning when classes resumed. Chicopee isn't far from many colleges and universities, like UMass and Springfield College.
--Percy

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Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by LinearAq, posted 01-03-2005 4:45 PM Percy has replied

  
LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4675 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 169 of 192 (173510)
01-03-2005 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Percy
01-03-2005 4:00 PM


Re: The next step then...
Q said that he did not want to do a one-on-one. I am interested in Maestro's arguement and am willing to wait a little longer.
Perhaps we should try to avoid asking for substantial evidence for every comment Maestro makes unless it is central to the issue of the discussion. He does seem to wander and shotgun a bit. Also, ganging up on him seems to rattle him a bit. I think he is honestly trying to put forth a coherent arguement but may need some coaching and tolerance.
Besides, he seems like a nice enough guy.

Remember; your enemy rarely thinks he is evil. Knowing this can help you find a means of compromising and finding peace...or, in failing that, you can kill him without wasting precious energy on hate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Percy, posted 01-03-2005 4:00 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 170 of 192 (173569)
01-03-2005 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by LinearAq
01-03-2005 4:45 PM


Re: The next step then...
LinearAq writes:
Besides, he seems like a nice enough guy.
Agreed, a very nice guy.
He does seem to wander and shotgun a bit. Also, ganging up on him seems to rattle him a bit. I think he is honestly trying to put forth a coherent arguement but may need some coaching and tolerance.
He's groping for answers because he's only just now discovering that his well founded beliefs are actually just assumptions.
--Percy

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rightw/god
Inactive Member


Message 171 of 192 (218995)
06-23-2005 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Quetzal
12-20-2004 3:14 PM


in Job 40:15-20 the bible gives reference to behemoth the dinosaur. since believers think the earth is only several thousand years old. it would be impossible for them to have gone extinct 65 mya which is most widely accepted.

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Replies to this message:
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rightw/god
Inactive Member


Message 172 of 192 (218997)
06-23-2005 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by rightw/god
06-23-2005 1:14 PM


15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

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Replies to this message:
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Meeb
Inactive Member


Message 173 of 192 (221367)
07-02-2005 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by rightw/god
06-23-2005 1:15 PM


rightw/god writes:
and his force is in the navel of his belly.
One problem: Dinosaurs didn't have navels.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by rightw/god, posted 06-23-2005 1:15 PM rightw/god has replied

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 174 of 192 (221374)
07-02-2005 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by rightw/god
06-23-2005 1:14 PM


in Job 40:15-20 the bible gives reference to behemoth the dinosaur.
"Behemoth" is not a species of dinosaur.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 175 of 192 (221375)
07-02-2005 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by rightw/god
06-23-2005 1:15 PM


Er, this describes an elephant, not any species of sauropod. I mean, look at this:
He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
The Job author is describing an animal short enough to lay in the shade of a tree, and trees in the middle east aren't all that tall. Furthermore, the animal is not so large that it can't be concealed ("in the covert") by tall grasses and reeds.
Clearly, we're not talking about any dinosaur; this obviously refers to an elephant.

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Replies to this message:
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rightw/god
Inactive Member


Message 176 of 192 (221399)
07-03-2005 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 175 by crashfrog
07-02-2005 5:16 PM


the word behemoth describes a large object. and they defintitly couldn't be describing an elephant since i think an elephants tail is one of the farthest things from a mighty cedar. If you can think of another animal it could be describing, let me know.

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Replies to this message:
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rightw/god
Inactive Member


Message 177 of 192 (221400)
07-03-2005 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 175 by crashfrog
07-02-2005 5:16 PM


there were only like three dinosaurs we've found that are larger than an elephant. and the bush patches they have in that region can ectually get quite large

This message is a reply to:
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rightw/god
Inactive Member


Message 178 of 192 (221402)
07-03-2005 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by rightw/god
07-03-2005 12:10 AM


Gosh! I keep thinking of stuff. with the eating grass part. God created all animals to be vegetarian. it was only after the fall that competition for survival began.

This message is a reply to:
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 179 of 192 (221406)
07-03-2005 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by rightw/god
07-03-2005 12:08 AM


i think an elephants tail is one of the farthest things from a mighty cedar.
"tail like a mighty cedar" is a euphism I spelt that wrong for a big cock.

*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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rightw/god
Inactive Member


Message 180 of 192 (221407)
07-03-2005 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by DrJones*
07-03-2005 12:37 AM


has anybody else heard "tail like a giant cedar" a euphamism for giant cock? I've heard "mighty oak" used
This message has been edited by rightw/god, 07-03-2005 12:53 AM

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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