So help me dog (or god, whatever!).

Well I just received a jury duty notice and so I once again will probably get to be a juror. If selected I am going to try and submit a request to take a secular oath this time. The religious zealots down here started opening Orlando city council meetings and the Juror instruction sessions with the pledge of alleigence with the overly fevrent ones almost shouting "under god" !

From here

quote:

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Art. 36. That as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to Him, all persons are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty; wherefore, no person ought by any law to be molested in his person or estate, on account of his religious persuasion, or profession, or for his religious practice, unless, under the color of religion, he shall disturb the good order, peace or safety of the State, or shall infringe the laws of morality, or injure others in their natural, civil or religious rights; nor ought any person to be compelled to frequent, or maintain, or contribute, unless on contract, to maintain, any place of worship, or any ministry; nor shall any person, otherwise competent, be deemed incompetent as a witness, or juror, on account of his religious belief; provided, he believes in the existence of God, and that under His dispensation such person will be held morally accountable for his acts, and be rewarded or punished therefor either in this world or in the world to come.

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Nothing shall prohibit or require the making reference to belief in, reliance upon, or invoking the aid of God or a Supreme Being in any governmental or public document, proceeding, activity, ceremony, school, institution, or place.

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Nothing in this article shall constitute an establishment of religion

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bold emphasis mineI'm not sure how the judge can ensure the requirements for a juror can be met if he has to follow the requirements of the second paragraph. Seems like a bit of a contradiction to me.Good luck in performing your civic duty. Hang the guilty bas...um...I mean...Bring to bear all your wisdom and experience in determining the disposition of the accused.Edited by LinearAq, : Emphasis for quote

Wow! I wonder when that article was enacted. It clearly is unconstitutional but then again there are lots of laws that are on the books that are unconstitutional and are just not enforced. It does seem to be contradicted by the second paragraph, though the wording "Nothing shall prohibit or require ..." makes it seem that this was more to allow the reference to deities and belief.

The article right after it is interesting too! Basically there will be no religious test except for this one!

From the December 10, 1965, issue of Time Magazine (God & Courts): --Percy

Again!?I've never been contact about jury duty ever, not even once.What gives?

The wording implies to me that a juror can be judged incompetent for not believing in God, but doesn't have to be. Maybe I'm misinterpreting the meaning of older texts though.If the idea of swearing to God bothers you, don't think of it as actually swearing to God. Think of it as a formalised piece of language simply meaning that you're making a serious promise.The long influence of Christianity on English and American culture means that our language is riddled with religious formulations we now use devoid of religious meaning. I don't believe in God, and yet I entreat Him to bless people when they sneeze; and cry His name in anguish when frustrated. I warn people away from schadenfreude by reminding them that only God's grace keeps us from a similar fate to those unfortunates we mock, and I entreat the aid of Heaven when things look bleak.It all seems less offensive when viewed this way, and even kind of nicely quaint.Edited by caffeine, : To give a subtopic title

I've been in Florida for the last 19 years and this is about my sixth or seventh jury duty call up. I was selected 3 times. In the previous ten years that I was eligable to be a juror (living in Michigan and then Chicago) I was only called up once for a Federal case but I wasn't selected. It's kind of interesting to watch the process and the more I see the more I don't ever want to be on trial! The Orange County Courthouse in Orlando,FL is pretty nice though and since it's a highrise the view from the jury room is beautiful.http://www.consultwebs.com/...es/fl/orlando/604/2/occ_73.jpg

How's the selection process work? Like I said, I've never heard anything about jury duty at all not even once (I'm 28 years old) I think I'd make a great juror and would find it interesting. How do they keep people from daydreaming as they stare out the window instead of paying attention to the case?

I found my own jury experience to be extremely interesting and highly rewarding. I learned a lot about human nature as well as the justice system. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

I was sent a Jury Duty mail when I was still 17, about 3 months before my 18th birthday, so I had to tell them I wasn't old enough and haven't received one since. I would really like to be in a jury, I would find it very interesting.

Well here it's off the voter registration roles and since they started the motor-voter registration (ie you can register to vote when you renew your drivers license) the supposedly have more people to select from.You can't look out the windows in the courtroom, only in the jury deliberation room and in the hallways and possibly the judges chambers (I've never been in there so I'm not sure) can you see out.

Why go out of your way? When the time comes just say something along the lines of "I wish to affirm whatever it is I'm affirming without reference to God". Make them accommodate you on the spot. Why should you have to go to some extra trouble just to exercise a constitutional right?In my view, the system that is forcing God on a citizen is wrong and sand should be thrown in their gears. By arranging in advance, you facilitate their dysfunction and help hide the problem. Maybe I'm just cantankerous, but I think it is the responsibility of the citizen to publicly mess with the system, if for no other reason than to inform and motivate others who are probably thinking the same thing.Capt.

I agree with you but I don't want to invoke the courts wrath or actually delay the court preceedings. All in all the oath thing is mostly an annoyance and it pisses me off because it is clearly an infringement of my rights. Just not a major enough one for me to want to possibly be jailed on contempt of court charges if the judge gets irked at me.

Simons,The way I see it, the "so help me God" thing is nothing but a relic from the past. I'm not religious, but I actually kind of like this little reminder of how old the tradition is. When people yell "Shotgun!", no one is implying that they are gonna carry a shotgun to defend from robbers. All they want to sit at the front passenger seat. The same with the oath. Its there to make it clear that you must tell the truth/be objective and if you are not there will be consequences. There really is nothing religious about it (even if some people chose to believe there is).The whole process is just a part of an old tradition. Kind of like the 7th inning stretch (7th?) or like an initiation ceremony in a secret society or a fraternity. Something that makes it more fun.
Surely it would be easier if there was no oath at all, but simply a document that you sign. It would be also easier if the judges didn't have to wear those priestly robes and use a gavel. They could just dress in a suit and use an electronic signal. But we keep doing it because there is something comforting about holding on to our past. The same reason why judges in England wear wigs.So I guess my point is that, to me, there is nothing offensive about it. Even if does offend some people, this God-fearing oath is the least harmful aspect of religion and not worth the effort of trying to change it, not yet anyway. Instead of trying to take God out of a courtroom statement, we should be trying to get "god" out of people’s hearts and minds. We should stop the perpetual cycle of ignorance and fanaticism in the society. Everything else will follow.Edited by Ragged, : Typos