Taxes

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Excuse me? That the wealthy are able to influence the government in order to benefit themselves while the non-wealthy do not have the same influence doesn't matter?

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ARE ABLE. That doesn't mean they do. If they do so illegally - they should be punished. But it's still their money. Do you deny this fact that it's their money? I still say it is the right of a parent to pass on their benefits to their children.

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The thing is, the person making 10K STILL PAYS TAXES.

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He or she still pays those REGRESSIVE payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare.

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Also remember that they are also paying sales tax and property taxes (if they own a house

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Yes. However, 60% of the taxes come from 2%. THey are paying for more than themselves. They are paying for many others in the nation.

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But look at the current economy; major slump, low taxes for the rich both before and during, with enormous deficits looming.

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The current state of the economy is not due to the level of taxation for the rich. It is due to the vacuum left after the dotcom bubble burst.

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I find that people who hold the views you do have either never worked for a living or have always had money, and lack historical context. The wealthy currently have it as good as they ever have in our country's history as far as taxs go. The tax rate for the richest Americans at one point was 80% or higher.

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Surprise, surprise. Once again you choose bias over facts. I guess if I worked really hard for my money that doesn't mean squat. Schraf here thinks i've got it too good.

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You boo hoo about all the upper middle class and rich people and the taxes they pay.

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This is rich. The evc forum cry baby poster boy is pointing fingers at some one else. You never cease to entertain me with your hypocrisy.

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when in reality most rich people are like that because they were born that way or they got a lot of help from the networks of connections that are designed to keep the wealth in this country exactly where the wealthy want to keep it.

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Who's reality? Gee, where I can find some contact information for the rich white man network? I'd like to join please.

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The people who truly do come from nothing and "pull themselves up by their own bootstaps" despite all the odds and obstacles and become wealthy is actually a tiny, tiny minority. The rich pretty much keep getting richer, and the same families and individuals control the wealth.

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So the minority doesn't matter? The point (which you are failing to grasp) is wealth CAN be obtained under Capitalism. Wealth isn't like foodstamps schraf. You have to work hard to earn it.

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You focus entirely upon income tax rates, but if you take into account the Social Security and Medicare taxes I pay as a percentage of my income compared to the Social Security and Medicare taxes a wealthy person pays as a percentage of their income, it is no comparison at all.

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You are completely right. Social Security and Medicare taxes needs to be eradicated.

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The wealthy person stops paying Medicare taxes after the first 60K of income, so it ends up being a miniscule part of their total taxes. By contrast, it is a huge chunk of mine.

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Hahaha. A liberal bitching about liberal taxes. Do you shake hands and play dead too?

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I think your views are based upon naive ideas about life.

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Do you feel better now schraf? His opinion doesn't matter because he's a minor.

Actually the guy making 10k DOESN'T pay taxes.

The current recession is a worldwide recession btw, hard to pin that on anyone. And was caused mostly by naive investors who help get stocks like Network Appliances to 240(now at around 5). As well as criminal researchers and investments firms who pushed said stocks.During the Reagan era the military deficit balloned, and then was cut dramatically since the cold war was over, Clinton came into office with a Tax Reciept SUPRLUS, which in addition to being able to cut military spending helped matters only more. The current spendings when taken in the context of the ENTIRE budget would be in line and not the major increase the left would have us think.Tax cuts do work, sorry, but they do. And under Bush's tax plan if you make under 50k a year you pay ZERO taxes, I am not sure HOW you can have a problem with that? Perhaps its not the poor you are upset about, its that there are rich people making a lot more than you?

A: quote: The people who truly do come from nothing and "pull themselves up by their own bootstaps" despite all the odds and obstacles and become wealthy is actually a tiny, tiny minority. The rich pretty much keep getting richer, and the same families and individuals control the wealth.

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That's because a small minority choose to do that.

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That is such bullshit!There are scores and scores of people who are smart and capable and willing to work extremely hard, who don't happen to "know the right people" or the color of their skin is wrong or they are the wrong gender, or the wrong religion, or from the "wrong side of the tracks", or they didn't have the benefit of rich suburban schools, or whatever, so they do not get the chance to realize their potential.The original point, Win, was that you said that all of those "hard-working" rich people deserve to keep more of their money, and I and others have pointed out that most rich people inherit their money.So, any desire for them to hold on to their money comes not from an "I worked hard for this so I should keep it" attitude, but from a "it's mine, I have a lot of influence on the government because I am rich, so I'm going to do what I can to influence the government to make sure I keep my money."Are you going to acknowledge this?A: quote: The majority of taxes that most people pay is payroll taxes, which is a regressive tax. You focus entirely upon income tax rates, but if you take into account the Social Security and Medicare taxes I pay as a percentage of my income compared to the Social Security and Medicare taxes a wealthy person pays as a percentage of their income, it is no comparison at all.The wealthy person stops paying Medicare taxes after the first 60K of income, so it ends up being a miniscule part of their total taxes. By contrast, it is a huge chunk of mine.Proportionally, people who make less contribute more to Social Security and Medicare.

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So each individual pays for his own medicare and social security - that's fair.

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You think that regressive taxes are fair? I pay proportionally MORE out of my income for SS and Medicare than a rich person, and that is fair?Are you not reading what I write?

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What about the roads, the national defense and other public services paid MOSTLY for by the upper income tax brackets.

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Since big money benefits the most from having good roads and national defense, they should pay the most.Also, you forgot about corporate welfare. Big Money certaily benefits the most from all the taxes that go into corporate welfare, right?

The economy is also slumping because we are heading into a war that a lot of the world is against, includeing a great many people in the US.

A: Excuse me? That the wealthy are able to influence the government in order to benefit themselves while the non-wealthy do not have the same influence doesn't matter?

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ARE ABLE. That doesn't mean they do.

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Do you still claim that it doesn't matter that they can do this?

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If they do so illegally - they should be punished.

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Currently, there is nothing illegal about most of the influence-peddling that goes on.Tell me, if Bill Gates wanted to see his senator, and some regular Joe Citizen also wanted to see the same senator, who do you think is more likely to get an appointment?Until campaign finanance reforem is seriously indertaken, we will have the tiny rich minority having a great deal more influence over our government than the majority of people.

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But it's still their money. Do you deny this fact that it's their money? I still say it is the right of a parent to pass on their benefits to their children.

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I don't deny any of this.

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Tax cuts do work, sorry, but they do. And under Bush's tax plan if you make under 50k a year you pay ZERO taxes, I am not sure HOW you can have a problem with that? Perhaps its not the poor you are upset about, its that there are rich people making a lot more than you?

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That's not true according to my info:The U. S. GovernmentThe Bush Tax Brackets
Under the Bush plan, the tax brackets would be reorganized to the taxpayer's advantage as follows:* High-income persons, currently paying 39.6 and 36 percent in taxes would have their tax rate reduced to 33 percent of taxable income.* Middle-income persons, currently paying 31 and 28 percent in taxes would have their tax rate reduced to 25 percent of taxable income.* Low-income persons, currently paying 15 percent in taxes would have their tax rate reduced to 10 percent of taxable income.

He doesn't pay any payroll or sales taxes?

Shaf WHERE have you been for the last 3 years?????The WORLD has been in a recessionary period since mid 2000...Sorry the upcoming war is not the reason. It is widely accepted on Wall Street that actually starting the war would relieve a lot of pressure on the markets, but the war itself has nothing to do with a 3 year old slump the economy is in.

Shraf its nice that you fail to figure in ALL the facts..Like DEDUCTIONS and CREDITS...From your link...
"Under this plan, say Bush's financial planners, some six million low and middle-income families will pay no taxes at all."And lets look at page two..I mispoke apparently when I said EVERYONE who makes 50k or less pays no taxes...However the average family with two kids will pay less than 3k in federal taxes..."Married - 2 Children - 2nd Earner Income = 0%
Income
$ 26,000 Current tax: $ 170 New tax: $ 0 Savings: $ 170
$ 36,000 Current tax: $ 1670 New tax: $ 70 Savings: $ 1600
$ 50,000 Current tax: $ 3770 New tax: $ 2170 Savings: $ 1600
$ 76,000 Current tax: $ 9587 New tax: $ 7545 Savings: $ 2042
$ 100,000 Current Tax: $ 16307 New tax: $ 13545 Savings: $ 2762"Lets goto the Bush Tax Calculator :Well it appears I can't =/ the link doesn't work... How old is this article?but lets look at another article...Briefing Room - The White HouseUnder the President’s proposal to speed up tax relief, 92 million taxpayers would receive, on average, a tax cut of $1,083 in 2003.
46 million married couples would receive an average tax cut of $1,716.
34 million families with children would benefit from an average tax cut of $1,473.
6 million single women with children would receive an average tax cut of $541.
13 million elderly taxpayers would receive an average tax cut of $1,384.
23 million small business owners would receive tax cuts averaging $2,042.
Americans in the lowest tax brackets receive the largest percentage reduction in their tax burden. 3 million moderate-income families will see their income tax burden eliminated entirely. Example: A family of four with an income of $40,000 would see their federal income taxes fall from $1,178 to $45 under the President’s plan.I will continue to look for the place that said families making under 50k will pay zero in taxes.

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I mispoke apparently when I said EVERYONE who makes 50k or less pays no taxes...

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Well, right.Excuse me for thinking that what you write is what you mean.

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I will continue to look for the place that said families making under 50k will pay zero in taxes.

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Please do.

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However, 60% of the taxes come from 2%. THey are paying for more than themselves. They are paying for many others in the nation.

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Those who benefit the most should pay the most.Actually, people who have the most before taxes still have the most after taxes.