Did Jesus lie ?

Maybe if you put "mythical" in bold letters that will make it even more so.The fact that they looked back 500 years latter and realized the cataclysmic effect on history of this man Jesus of Nazareth argues more for His uniqueness not less.C.S. Lewis was a professional expert at Liturary Criticism from Oxford. He also was a strong athiest until he surrendered his life to Christ. You can read about it in his book "Surprised By Joy"Anyway Lewis knew liturary criticism on a post graduate level. He would have found your charge of the New Testament reading like a myth as an exposure of your own ignorance in the field of his expertise.It does not read like myth at all: Sounds like historical writing to me much more than mythical writing. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Shouldn't you be more concerned with why they managed to get Jesus' date of birth wrong? God comes to Earth and no one has a clue when he was born!It gets more embarrasing the more we look at it.Brian. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

I didn't realise I said something funny.Do you disagree with my post?I'm a bit sensitive right now, all the Christians are persecuting me? Brian. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Hell no, I really enjoy your posts and there's no way those fundys can get to you. I read your exchanges regularly and see this Christian thing just as ridiculous as you do.I was raised a Baptist in the Southern U.S. and the entire time I knew there was something incredibly wrong. I finally discovered what it was that bothered me so. It was the "Ignorance Vow" that they all had the take to participate. One is Un-equally yoked when you refuse to take that vow. I refuse to turn off my brain for anyone.How else can you explain this phenomenon? If ANYONE used the same discerning skills and logic they use in their regular life with thier religious side, there would be no doubt that they would never believe any of that crap. It's like a button that turns off their brains upon the first mention of Jesus or God. Like a deer in the headlights.Keep up the great and entertaining work. I'm a devoted fan. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

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The fact that they looked back 500 years latter and realized the cataclysmic effect on history of this man Jesus of Nazareth argues more for His uniqueness not less.

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We are not discussing Jesus' uniqueness but the historical accuracy of the Gospels. That Dionysius Exiguus looked back 500 years to an event that his religious beliefs told him was important says nothing about its historical accuracy, no more than days of the week still bearing the names of pagan deities attests to the existence of the pagan gods. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

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"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." -- Thomas Paine

No not totally. I did post a definition in here Message 119 that explains the word genea can mean age.I am not a greek language scholar, crap I don't know any greek at all, well I know the word genea now.But there are verses in the bible, like I showed in Message 119 that show how the word genea could mean a period of time longer than 30-40 or 30-100 years. Am I correct in mentioning that greek is not the original language of the bible, and there could be further translation variances that we do not know about?I also feel like we are beating this thing to death, but it is interesting, I learn as I go. It's a continuation for me, into what I feel from God.

FYI there are no fundies in this thread, and that word is an insult around here.Oh, welcome to the forums. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

I think he was speaking in general terms.Faith is a fundy, as is Jaywill, Iano and Buz, the brothers Grimm are fundies too.I haven't made my mind up whether you are a fundy or not, some of your statements certainly verge on fundamentalism.Brian. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Fair enough jaywill. I was referring to people of the "it's all explained in the Bible" persuasion. can you honestly say you got a satisfactory answer ? isn't that a bit contradictory, since He gave us said reasoning ability in the first place? is He regretting it now ? He's a bit selective in his revelation then, dont you think ? sorry about that. I was so consumed with other sub-topics that I forgot about this. I'll do a new post on this. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

The big problem with this hypothesis is that in the gospels Jesus is repeatedly associating the coming of the kingdom with judgement and worldwide calamity (Matt 24, Matt 25). The preceding verse alone clearly links the coming of Jesus with Judgement:(Matt 16:27) "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works."In Matt 25:32-46 and using the same phraseology as in 16:27, the author explains exactly how it's going to happen, sheep on the right, goats on the left, etc.Does the Transfiguration account give a preview of any of this? Not in the slightest! Where is the preview of the earthquakes, wars, famine etc. that Jesus describes in Matt 24, Mark 13, Luke 21? It's just not there!So, making out the Transfiguration as a preview of the coming of the Kingdom is but wishful thinking I'm afraid.

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

The exact date of Christ's birth is not that important. Christmas is important to skeptics like yourself who are desperate to rationalize their rejection of the divine coming of God's Son.The 25th of December as Christ's birthday was part of the "leaven" added to the pure meal as predicted by Christ in Matthew 13:33"Another parable He spoke to them: The kingdom of the heavens is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal until the whole was leavened." Meal was for making the meal offering Lev.2:1). In this parable meal signifies Christ as the food to both God and man. Three measures is the quantity needed to make a full meal (Gen. 18:6). Here, the hiding of the leaven in three measures of meal symbolizes that the Catholic Church has fully leavened in a hidden way all the teachings concerning Christ.Leaven bloats the bread up. I its fermentation property was used to bloat the loaf up and make it more palatable. This is the actual situation with the Roman Catholic Church. She leavened the pure loaf of the Christian gospel with a mixture of pagan practices and beliefs. The Scriptures forbade leavening of the meal offering in Leviticus 2:4-5,11.You are just pointing to the Catholic leaven which Christ predicted would be mixed into the pure meal of the kingdom gospel. The church life begun from Pentecost was the practical kingdom of the heavens. And Paul told the believers also that they should purge out all the leaven from the fine flour that the church might be a loaf of unleavened bread:"Purge out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, even as you are unleavened; for our Passover, Christ, also has been sacrificed.

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So then let is keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth" (1 Cor. 5:7,8)So we are concerned about the leaven of the false birthday of Jesus. Many of us have come forth out of the corruption of Christiandom to practice the unleavened fine flour church life without such mixture.Before you pointed it out Jesus already warned us. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

You don't have to be a greek scholar to understand simple things like that. Just go and find a Greek person (there must be some in your area) and tell them that [something] will happen this generation ("genea"). Then ask them when are they expecting [something] to happen, based on what you told them. Ancient Greek (the 'Common' dialect) is the language of the earliest manuscripts of the New Testament we have. I don't know whether the originals would have been written in Aramaic or someother language, but what we have is in Greek, probably the most widely-studied and best-understood of the languages of the time. There is no confusion on what the Greek text says. The confusion arises when you want to make the text fit within your pre-conceptions. In the referenced post you bring up this verse:(Matthew 16:4) "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and there will be no sign given to it, except the sign of the prophet Jonah."Here Jesus is specifically replying to the Pharisees and Sadducees who question his authority in verse 1. Not the Jewish nation, not the Pharisees past and future, but the Pharisees present at the time who question him. The evil and adulterous generation is those Pharisees. How long do you think those people lived? 60 years, 70 perhaps? In any case certainly not 1000 years. Yet another example where the word 'generation' is used to refer to people within a specific and limited time frame. no, we're not. You're extrapolating Jesus's reply onto us. Jesus isn't talking to us he's replying to the Pharisees who asked him to give them a sign. The generation he's talking about is that of those people.

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

It is typical that some people who have little experience living in the reality of the kingdom by the Holy Spirit only notice very outward aspects of its teaching. All the many verses about the inward reality of the kingdom are not noticed, perhaps because of little participation. What is noticed is things outside of the reader like world calamities, armies, clouds of glory, angels, battles, thrones, etc.Now this is not to say that these outward things are not aspects to Christ’s kingdom. But with His people the kingdom is moving from the subjective and inward out. For example we are taught that Christ would give to Peter the keys of the kingdom of the heavens in Matthew 16:19. And this opening of the door of the kingdom is closely related to the building of the new testament church:” . you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. And I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of the heavens . ” (See Matt.16:18,19)The rock is the revelation of Christ as the Son of the living God (vs.16). And the building with doors which need keys is the church built upon the revelation of Christ as God’s Son. On the day of Pentecost Peter used one of the (plural) keys and let the Jews into the church life and thus into the practical kingdom of the heavens. They received the Holy Spirit into them, regenerating them and causing them to be indwelt by the Spirit of the resurrected King Christ.In Acts 10 in the house of Cornelius Peter used the other key of the (plural) keys and opened the door of the new testament church to the Gentiles. They received the Holy Spirit as well.So you see entering into the reality of the kingdom is first having Christ enter into you. He brings the kingdom life. It is primary that men enter into the kingdom by being born of God as also John chapter 3 teaches. It is necessary at His second coming that others are shepherded under His authority by the iron rod of His reigning over the earth.The latter aspect of the kingdom seems to be all that you notice. You should consider if this is because it is from outside of the kingdom’s reality that you presently stand.And as for judgment we are told that judgment begins at the house of God. It begins with those, who via the keys of the kingdom, have entered into the church life:”For it is time for the judgment to begin from the house of God; and if first from us, what will be the end of those who disobey the gospel of God? (1 Peter 4:17) This verse refers to His followers. This is proved by verses 24 and 25:”Then Jesus said to His disciples, If anyone wants to come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. For whoever wants to save his soul-life shall lose it; but whoever loses his soul-life for My sake shall find it . For the Son of Man is to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will repay each man according to his doings.” (Matt.16:24,25,27)”For” in verse 27 indicates that the Lord’s rewarding of His followers at His coming back, as mentioned in this verse, will be according to whether they lose or save their soul, as mentioned in verses 25-26. This rewarding of ”each man” (His followers) will take place at the judgment seat of Christ (2 Cor. 5:10; Rev. 22:12).
This rewarding is not to determine whether each man shall receive eternal redemption or eternal punishment. This judgment is to reward His followers with what their position will be in His millennial kingdom.The many parable in Matthew show that His servants will be rewarded or disciplined when He returns to manifest outwardly the kingdom whose reality they were supposed to have been living throughout the church age. Once again, judgment is to begin from the house of God. The judgment in Matthew 25 is definitely not the rewarding of His followers at His judgment seat. It is another judgment concerning the nations left alive on earth after the great tribulation. That is all that I will write about that right now. But we have been through this before on this forum. No it is not at all “wishful thinking”In Revelation 12 we read these words - ”And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, Now has come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and of His Christ, for the accuser of our brothers has been cast down, who accuses them before our God day and night.This voice says that the kingdom has come as a result of the rapture to the heavens and to the throne of God of the Manchild in verse 5.Now I will be very limited in my exposition on Revelation 12 in this post. But the Manchild represents a remnant of stronger believers within the whole body of the Woman who represents all of the believers. The resurrection and rapture of this corporate remnant of stronger kingdom living saints includes Christ glorifying their bodies from within and temporarily removing them to the third heavens in rapture:”And she brought forth a son, a man-child, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness . etc.” (See Rev. 12:5,6)I will not give complete exlpanation now. But all through the church age while Satan and his appointed skeptical types have been accusing the Christian brothers of failures day and night, little did they know that God had always reserved a remant who were victorious and overcoming. This groups loved not their soul life and took up the cross to follow Jesus. But they were a minority of cooperative ones.One day these will be resurected, glorified from within (like on the Mt. of Transfiguration) and be raptured from the larger body of God’s people ”up to God and to His throne”. When this occurs the voice in heaven says that ”Now has come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ, for the accuser of our brothers has been cast down who accuses them before our God day and night” (12:10).

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In short these overcomers go up and Satan is driven down to the earth and limited to that realm. He is no longer free to roam before the throne of God as in Job, to make accusations against God’s people.

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Those living in the reality of the kingdom through the church age form a beach head. This is like a Normandy invasion. They are the first on the beach of the heavens and the earth as overcoming kingdom people.

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The job of Satan and his unbelieving skeptics who oppose the gospel is to keep up accusations against God’s people day and night - pointing out their failures and shortcomings. They will not come under the authority of Christ themselves. They rather would ceaslessly accuse Christians of their failures.

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But thankfully those who overcome prevail in the church age - ”And they overcame him [Satan] because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they loved not their soul-life even unto death." Compare this with Matt.16:24,25,27.

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They are rewarded to rule with Christ over the nations with an iron rod as He shepherds the nations.

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Therefore be glad, O heavens and those who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea because the devil has come down to you and has great rage, knowing that he has only a short time” (Rev. 12:11,12)The stage of the manifestation of the inward reality of the church life will commence with the resurrection and rapture of the collective remnant of the Manchild just before the great tribulation. The accuser of the brothers will be driven out from accusing God’s people. He will be limited to the earth only. In fact his being driven down at the rapture of the Manchild is the beginning of the great tribulation - ”Woe to the earth and the sea because the devil has come down to you and has great rage, knowing that he has only a short time.” Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by AdminPD, : WarningEdited by jaywill, : No reason given.

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No not totally. I did post a definition in here Message 119 that explains the word genea can mean age.

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And I showed you in Message 125 that the author and the lexicon don't support your idea that genea means age in the sense that you want to use it.The author set the precedent for the usage and was referring to the people of the time whenever he used the word "generation" (genea).(Other than Matthew 1:17)

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

Legend,To summarize:1.) Christ will not do all of the reigning in the kingdom over the world by Himself alone.2.) Those who are cooperative with Him in the church age must accompany Him. You can be saved but not cooperative for His kingdom if you wish.3.) Therefore He must select those rewarded to reign with Him from those not so rewarded.4.) Such selection must take place BEFORE He establishes His kingdom over the globe.5.) Such a selection is based on how faithfully these followers have lived in the reality of the kingdom about to be outwardly manifested.6.) This has nothing to do with their eternal destiny. It has to do with their reward..7) The divine life within them is the hope of glory and will glorify them to be like Christ on the Mt. of Transfiguration8.) Therefore that event was preview of the manifestation of the kingdom with the overcoming victors who are to be rewarded to reign with Christ in the millennial kingdom.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.