Should we let Bill Frist & Co. change the rules of the senate ?

are you kidding? they JUST got that? i got that from the phantom menace.but then again, i know what nationalism is, and how leader like adolf hitler used the fear of the outsider to solidify national identity and rise to power. in this case, the fact that sidious and senator (chancellor, emporer) palpatine are both played by ian mcdiarmid, who played, uh, the evil emporer palpatine in return of the jedi... well, it didn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together and get 4. still, the fans have been debating about it for years.still, i'm not sure if gl is commenting on current politics or not. the transition of republic to empire, via the clone wars is an OLD story. and the aspect of one guy controlling it all had been planned at least as early tpm. but there are still elements that seem influenced (maybe subconciously) by recent events. like the shots of the jedi temple burning, which people are saying are remarkably similar to the towers.but this isn't a new topic, really. like i said, hitler did the same thing. and he wasn't the first either.

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אָרַח

That is not the point. The point is that I have lost my Constitutional protections therof.Wouldn't you be angry if they passed a law saying that Christianity is illegal? What if you never got arrested for being Christian would that law be okay then?Are you saying that just because we are never personally affected by legislation that Constitutionality does not matter?Laws are wrong based upon their principle not who they do and do not affect. Jim Crow laws were wrong the moment they were brought into existance, not the moment they started to infringe on the rights of African Americans.Why do you feel a law only becomes unconstitutional the moment it is unsed in an an unconstitutional way?

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FOX has a pretty good system they have cooked up. 10 mil people watch the show on the network, FOX. Then 5 mil, different people, tune into FOX News to get outraged by it. I just hope that those good, God fearing people at FOX continue to battle those morally bankrupt people at FOX.
-- Lewis Black, The Daily Show

It’s good to know there are a few people here that do not view corporate America as the enemy. I agree that Gov’ts should be above large corps and not the other way around.OTOH, many corps, both large and small, do a significant amount of business with the government such that removing the connection is not feasible. I suppose your point hinges on your definition of connection. Sure you’ve heard that statement before if you’ve been reading this thread. I quoted EZscience at Message 57.But in answer to your comment, SOME corporations do try to secure wealth at the expense of taxpayers and their employees, but MANY, dare I say most, do not. But frankly, the main point I object to is the generalized statements painted with a broad brush that puts ALL corporations in the same bucket.BTW, many corporations consisting of fewer than 30 employees have benefit packages similar to those I previously mentioned. I wouldn’t call those companies mega or large per se. Perhaps some people refer to corporate America has being large monoliths, but I don’t.

Who said anything about hating America ?
You conservatives are so quick to put words in other peoples' mouths...and construe their motives as it suits your agenda.
But I'm really glad you said that.
It pretty much typifies your party's approach to governing this country. If you don't support us and our policies - bugger off - you obviously hate America. I'm sure they must be proud of you and your simplistic 'black and white' labeling skills. If you read further back in this thread you will find some good arguments that it is consumption by the working clases that creates the jobs. The business intersts would love to produce the products for consumption without hiring anyone if they could. Their motive is profit, not providing employment and benefits for everyone. Where do you get that?
Civilization will not end just because we are allowing big business interests to hijack the democratic process and manipulate our government and its policies. But it won't make for a better country. I didn't say any such thing, and I don't support most socialist economic policies, but I find your knee-jerk reaction quite revealing.
So I'm a communist because I don't support your fascist party and its fallacial policies ?
Anything to left of neo-con is communist now?Believe it or not, I was a conservative in my former country and used to bitch and complain about some of the socialist policies that bothered me because I felt they were overly generous and did not engender sufficient self-reliance in people predisposed to take advantage of the 'the system'. But 'conservative' in this country is waaay out there, and I wouldn't want to be considered a part of that movement. Actually China only pays lip-service to communism now. They have adopted a free enterprise system.So instead of producing any cogent reasoning why my allegations are unfounded, you have tossed out a bunch of completely fabricated, vitriolic personal characterizations of what I must believe and where I should go to believe it, all of which are without any foundation and based solely on your completely polarized conservative outlook. I am actually quite pleased with your post as I think it serves as an excellent testimonial of our current administration. It is exactly this headstrong, cowboy attitude coupled with tunnel vision that will ultimately lead to the political failure of the Republican agenda both nationally and internationally.This message has been edited by EZscience, 05-25-2005 03:20 PM

All that I know is that corporations seek cheap labor and we middle or lower middle class Americans do not deserve to be left out. We cannot survive on a 40 hour $8.00 an hour job when we used to make $15.00+ an hour for all of our years of experience. Capitalism has an ugly side. It seeks only to be efficient and the CEO leaderrs of the company can always justify their inflated salaries by how they keep the rest of the labor costs low.

I know this is a few posts back, but can someone tell me definitively what the process is for amending the constitution? I was under the impression that an amendment required a supermajority in congress OR a ratification by 3/4ths of the states.Also my hazy american history seems to tell me that the latter would happen during a constitutional convention between states? I'm just confused. Obviously.

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'Most temperate in the pleasures of the body, his passion was for glory only, and in that he was insatiable.'

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you have tossed out a bunch of completely fabricated, vitriolic personal characterizations of what I must believe and where I should go to believe it, all of which are without any foundation and based solely on your completely polarized conservative outlook.

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Oh really, you think my conservatism is waaay out there eh? You think I’m being vitriolic?That's funny, you should examine your own quotes up thread because it is you who have a completely polarized view of the world. These are your words not mine: By even liberal standards, you are waaay out there.

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All that I know is that corporations seek cheap labor and we middle or lower middle class Americans do not deserve to be left out. We cannot survive on a 40 hour $8.00 an hour job when we used to make $15.00+ an hour for all of our years of experience. Capitalism has an ugly side. It seeks only to be efficient and the CEO leaders of the company can always justify their inflated salaries by how they keep the rest of the labor costs low.

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It is true that capitalism has an ugly side. It is also true that corporations will seek cheap labor or more precisely they will seek to minimize operating costs as much as possible. There are obvious limits to cost cutting and at some point it becomes counter productive. But some employees will always be left out and to those individuals it will be bitter and unfair. It was bitterly unfair that most steel workers have lost their jobs due to either overseas competition, technology improvements or obsolescence. It’s not a matter of who deserves something, it’s just the way it is.I have spent most of my adult life in corporate America at both large and small companies and IMO the more ruthless corps are the publicly traded ones who must cater to their board of directors who in turn cater to their stock holders and the stock valuation. Smaller private corporations seem to be less monolithic, place a greater emphasis on the quality and experience level of the labor force and are more flexible to employee needs.

zyncod writes:

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Why would you carry a baby to term only to kill it at the last possible minute unless there was a compelling medical reason?

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Exactly! This is the biggest non-issue of my lifetime. Wingnuts blather about it to energize the base, and as Monk demonstrates the tactic works. It's sad really, because the only thing accomplished by laws against late-term abortion is to harrass women who are in extreme distress.

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Keep America Safe AND Free!

Alexander asks:

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I know this is a few posts back, but can someone tell me definitively what the process is for amending the constitution? I was under the impression that an amendment required a supermajority in congress OR a ratification by 3/4ths of the states.

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Change 'or' to 'and' and you got it!

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Keep America Safe AND Free!

I didn't presume to guess what you believe in or whether you love or hate this country as a consequence of it.And when I said that corporate America was the enemy,
I meant when it comes to political influence.
When money truly equals power in politics, then our democracy will be defeated.And yes, I am vitriolic about the sad state of affairs for which I hold the current leadership responsible, and also pissed off at how they have used religious 'values' instread of actual issues to get where they are.I'm also willing to bet I am not alone.

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That's better than Teddy Kennedy choosing the next Supreme Court justice.

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Why?Because last time I checked, Kennedy is supportive more freedoms for individual Americans, in contrast to Dobson, who wants everyone in the US to be forced to adhere to his extremist Christian morality.

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And it's not cracks in the Republican stronghold. It's called compromise, ever hear of that?

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Up until very recently, the leadership of the Republican party had apparently never heard of "compromise".

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That means putting ideology aside to further the people's business eventhough republicans have the power to move forward anyway.

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Hmm, is Frist happy about this compromise? I don't think so.He was forced to compromise because the moderates in his party defied him.

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Democrats won't remember this compromise when they are in power.

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Oh, I think they certainly will remember the Republican Senators who defected.The will not forget Frist.

You know, you are puffing on with the overblown, silly rhetoric about Kennedy, but I notice that you didn't counter my assesment of Dobson or the Family research Council at all.Tell me, am I overstating or misrepresenting Dobson's or the FRC's goals and positions like you are overstating Kennedy's?

See, now you have said something I can actually agree with.
I don't think anyone's job description can or should be carved in stone. Neither do I believe in penalizing industry for chasing profit, but it needs government regulation to make sure the country isn't fleeced in the process, not the total 'hands-off' approach advocated by The Republican party. So I'm not really even a socialist, let alone a communist.What I am opposed to is a system that seems to allow huge monetary entities to control the political machine by manipulating the selection of candidates, buying advertising campaigns to (in many cases) distort the truth about real issues, and engaging powerful lobbyists to represent their interests - things neither you nor I can afford to do.

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They provide jobs,

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...and take them away when they can get cheaper labor elsewhere. Corporate America lobbies the government heavily to promote pro-corporate tax breaks and protections and to oppose and suppress worker power and rights.

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security,

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...except when they close up the factory and leave your community high and dry, and they suppress unions and other collective bargaining attempts by labor.

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health insurance,

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...the costs of which is unbelievably huge and only getting higher. Also, the insurance industry itself is motivated by profit, so they have incentive to NOT pay to provide care to people if at all possible.

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pensions,

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...except when they decide they "can't" pay, and so default on the promise of compensation they made to their employees.

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401k?s, among others. But we don?t recognize any of those benefits do we. No, in your mind they are big bad capitalist who only want slave labor.

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Look, all of those things that the corporations offer are not done as some kind of big-hearted, generous favor to people. They NEED labor to make their money for them, and those benefits are a means to attract and retain that labor.That's why many crappy, low-skill jobs do not provide any benefits at all.A corporation cares only about one thing; profits. They are not just a larger version of a small mom and pop business.They are beholden not to their employees, but to their shareholders.And do you know who holds the most wealth in the form of investments in the US? It sure ain't the people slaving away in middle management somewhere.

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Is there corruption in corporate America? Sure, as is the case in every enterprise involving humans.

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So we should just ignore it,especially when it clearly has a large effect upon governmental policy?

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But if you hate America so much, move to Cuba.

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If you have such a problem with people ctiticizing America, then maybe you would prefer we change from a democracy where discussion and dissent is a vital part of the political process to a dictatorship, like China, where you aren't ever allowed to openly criticise those in power.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 05-25-2005 09:37 PM