I'd probably have a better chance at getting answers from anyone except JimDSA. Go for it.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

yeah, i think that's more or less what the link said, too.

That sounds like total b.s. to me.Do you have supporting documentation for that claim )

Jar, your answers:1) Turkey is a "westernized" Moslem country, which means lots of men wear business suits instead of the traditional robes, and the women don't have to cover their faces; and on all his trips to Turkey Ron only had contact with Moslems; so if we have to make a blanket statement about the country as to whether it is secular or Moslem or communist or atheist or Christian, the bulk of the evidence is on the side of it being Moslem.2) In 1984 and 1985 when Ron was in Saudi Arabia (a MOSLEM country that is very difficult for foreigners to get into), Ron did not get invited to tour the entire country and go hunting for petroglyphs! And in 1985 when a Saudi archaeologist saw the Egyptian style petroglyphs he too must have been ignorant of the other exampls because he told Ron that he had never seen anything like them in Saudi Arabia -- so I guess he was wrong.3) The dates of Egyptian dating and Moslem dating do NOT match the dating of the Bible, so Ron never considered those time tables as being reliable. There is no "6000 BC" in the Bible.4) I know of no images of petroglyphs that Ron modified.5) As far as I know Ron always said that they were petroglyphs of Egyptian style cows and bulls. And I explained earlier that Aaron made a calf out of gold, that is why the place was called "the golden calf altar" and the other guys they could have scribbled anything they wanted onto the rocks.6) The sign next to the guard shack warns people not to mess with things in the fenced off area, so it's logical to assume that the people watching the place would be guarding it and using that shack.7) There is nothing in the Exodus story that mentions a "altar of cows and bulls," so why would Ron ever think that this was "the altar of cows and bulls" -- the Bible tells about the Golden Calf Altar, and the golden calf that Aaron made is long gone.There are my answers.

It seemed a reasonable position. I like to know that the guy who's drilling my teeth has studied dentistry, or that my taxi driver has a driving license (Although I don't look too closely when I'm in New York).I just wanted to know if Dr Moller was qualified in the field, and he isn't. I had no idea knowledge could be gained by osmosis. I shall read up on this. Shit, Jim, I KNOW a couple of surgeons but I don't go around pulling people's kidneys out. I just don't know what to say. Pity about the width. It must be a long way down for no one else's drilling cores to produce any signs of wood, but I can live with that. I have, but unfortunately I've also looked at others. So, only Ron's allies can see any evidence. Ahh. Thank you for the clarification. Thanks Jim - A straightforward, honest answer. It wasn't really that hard was it? Again, thank you. I should have suspected an evil conspiricy of atheist Turkish archeologists - don't know what I was thinking. I loved them. I might even frame them and hang them on the wall.

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Mat 27:5 And he went and hanged himself
Luk 10:37 Go, and do thou likewise.

Jim, could you just comfirm-
Did Ron (or do you) mantain the Earth is 6000-odd years old?
I don't want the thread wandering into the dating game, it's just an side question.

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Mat 27:5 And he went and hanged himself
Luk 10:37 Go, and do thou likewise.

OkayJimDSA, perhaps your answer will help explain to you and those others that might be persuaded to consider that there is ANY credibility to Ron Wyatt are simply being fooled.You said: I responded that it was a secular nation a member of Nato and certainly not a 3^rd. World Country. To support my position and gave ytou links to the CIA Factbook on Turkey and to the US State Departments pages on Turkey that showed not only is it Secular, Freedom of Religion is guaranteed in their Constitution and the only limitations are on some islamic sects in government and education positions.To counter those sources you provide: See, you provide NO evidence, only more assertions.I asked: In fact, they are so common that there are commercial tours to look at them in Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and other nations on the Arabian Penninsula.Your response and supporting evidence is: Again, NO evidence, only assertions. Some unnamed person said they were rare.The FACT is as I have shown right here,

There is no Egyptian style pictoglyph.

What Ron identifies as "Egyptian" is modified image. Ron has airbrushed out parts of the picture including the persons schlong and the feminine fertility symbol in frnt of his schlong.Please ask the science folk what would happen to ANY researcher who modified his data to suit his experiment? That's okay, no one was using either Moslem or Egyptian dating.Again, you present no evidence. Nor did you answer the question.Did Ron Wyatt (and do those of you still grubbing off his stake) tell folk that such drawings are dated to 6000-3000BC? Do you explain to folk that even the latest dates are 1500 years before the alleged Exodus?You said: Well Clyde, open your eyes. Ron modified lots of photos. The one I'm refering to and have posted numerous times here at EvC is the "man holding the Bull". In fact, scroll back and you'll find it posted dseveral times in this very thread.You say: We've already covered the egyptian style nonsense (not to mention that the idea of people who could make a Golden Calf Idol in a few nights would be expected to be able to do something more realistic than the pictoglyps) so is there ANY evidence of the Golden Calf? If not, then this is yet another unsuported assertion. What guard shack? What people watching the place? Look at your own pictures. There isn't even a way from that building to see the gate.Finally, the prize answer. I asked: Your answer: Talk about an indictment of Ron Wyatt.I will give you a chance to revise that answer and not hold it against you. The reason is that if it stands, Ron Wyatt is guilty of falsefying evidence and should and must be tossed out of any and all scientific consideration or activities.If what you say is true then Ron Wyatt falsified his data and withheld evidence that countered his supposition.

He did not report cows & bulls bows & hunting & camels & goats & sheep & schlongs because they did not fit within the myth he was trying to prove.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Jar, Jim:
There is a brief timelime for Turkey here. It includes the following entry:1928 - Turkey becomes secular: clause retaining Islam as state religion removed from constitution.Hope this helps...

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Mat 27:5 And he went and hanged himself
Luk 10:37 Go, and do thou likewise.

Start ? You started doing it the last time you were here defending Ron's claims (08-06-2004 onwards).You were keen on pointing out Dr. Moller's connections to the Nobel Prizes back then as well, so in the interests of fairness I should point out that the only Nobel Prize the Karolinska Institutet awards is the one for Medicine.It also seems to me that just because Dr. Moller works there doesn't mean that "He hangs with people who award the Nobel Prizes in Sweden!!!!" - maybe he does and maybe he doesn't. The Assembly that awards the Nobel Prize for Medicine consists of 50 Professors from the Karolinska Institutet. Looking at the annual report for 2002 there are over 300 Professors working there, so less than 1 in 6 are actually involved in awarding the Nobel Prize.Unless you know different I would say it's just speculation that Dr. Moller "hangs" with them.And even if he does what does working at a medical institute, no matter how prestigious, have to do with archeology ?

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The Tigers roared in Dublin - and I was there.

Thanks but it's immaterial. Turkey as been Christian, Islamic and as you point out, since 1928 Secular. In fact today, if there are any restriction they are not on Christians but rather Muslim factions, particularly the Kurds.JimDSA has yet to provide any supporting evidence for any of Ron Wyatt's claims. Ron never presented any evidence either.They have a good thing going and make money peddling Mythos. There's nothing wrong with that if they would simply label it as Mythos and stop falsifying what evidence there is.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Dead Parrot, both Ron and I and his other co-workers around the world believe that Creation Week was about 6,000 years ago -- so if somebody says "6,000 BC" that would mean 8,000 years ago, which does not match the chronology in the Bible.The chronology in the Bible clearly gives us a count of us presently being approximately 6,000 years from Creation.

So, Jar, how's your arm feeling?You must have done a lot of patting yourself on the back to congratulate yourself for being "oh-so-brilliant" in criticizing Ron and "the great calf controversy"!You need to understand the difference between Ron (who has been dead for 5 years now) preparing a generic presentation of his material as compared to preparing a master's thesis on the subject -- Ron never claimed to have done a master's thesis on his Mt. Sinai discovery and the golden calf altar, etc.! Cut the guy some slack!The in-depth answers you want are the answers that would come of an extensive 10-year investigation of the sites, AND THE SAUDI GOVERNMENT HAS NEVER PERMITTED OUTSIDE ARCHAEOLOGISTS TO HAVE FULL AND UNLIMITED ACCESS TO THE AREA! So the documentation we have is limited --To test how difficult it is to get there and do this work, I suggest that YOU give it a try to get into Saudi Arabia and arrange a full examination of Jebel el Lawz!Let's see how successful YOU would be, smart guy!Let's see you and/or some of your buddies get in there and do a documentation of all the petroglyphs around the area!

Jar, you need to quit writing your LIES -- you keep saying that Ron has "never" presented any evidence for "any" of his discoveries -- you are such a LIAR!And I don't care if they lock me out of this forum, the truth has to be told!Jar, YOU ARE A LIAR!A complete and total LIAR!This message has been edited by JimSDA, 05-05-2005 03:34 PM

Sorry but that is an incorrect statement and an attempt to change the subject.The questions I asked related to Ron's actions and the simple FACT of whether Turkey is a Muslim or Secular Nation. It takes NO additional research.Did Ron withold information prejudicial to his theory?Did Ron modify evidence, particularly photos?Did Ron report the results of other related studies on Pictoglyphs found in Arabia and North Africa?This is not a question about Saudi access. It's a direct challenge to Ron Wyatt and his ministry's honesty and procedures.This message has been edited by jar, 05-05-2005 08:55 AM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

and you are suspended for 24 hours.