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Author
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Topic: Medical Ethics
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Taq
Member Posts: 10028 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.3
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Message 46 of 58 (735732)
08-22-2014 5:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 43 by Faith
08-22-2014 5:08 PM
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I believe in a Deity who is minutely acquainted with everything that goes on in this universe, as well as everything in my mind and in yours. and cares about His entire Creation but especially human beings. He shepherds the movements of atoms as well as my personal affairs and yours. How does that make ME special?
And of course I'm talking about genuine prayer, not hypocritical prayer. You actually think that a creator deity cares about you enough that you can make requests. That is the ego trip.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 43 by Faith, posted 08-22-2014 5:08 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 47 by Faith, posted 08-22-2014 6:10 PM | | Taq has not replied |
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 47 of 58 (735734)
08-22-2014 6:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 46 by Taq
08-22-2014 5:47 PM
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You actually think that a creator deity cares about you enough that you can make requests. That is the ego trip. You are missing the point. You could make requests and be taken seriously too -- if you do it by His rules of course. It's lovely to know He cares about me personally and that I can depend on Him to answer my prayers as long as I'm in His will, but how that is an ego trip completely escapes me. I'm simply believing the promises given in the Bible, and you could too.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 46 by Taq, posted 08-22-2014 5:47 PM | | Taq has not replied |
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NoNukes
Inactive Member
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Message 48 of 58 (735735)
08-22-2014 6:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 35 by Faith
08-22-2014 2:09 PM
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I could have gone on to mention that the treatment has also been given to two LIBERIAN health workers. quote:
More than 100 health workers have been infected by the viral disease, which has no known cure, including two American medics working for charity Samaritan's Purse. More than half of those have died, among them Sierra Leone's leading doctor in the fight against Ebola, Sheik Umar Khan, a national hero.
That's right, more than 100 'helpful' people have been infected. Dr. Brantly got one of the few treatments available because he was an American. And I haven't seen anyone here take any issue with the fact that Brantly was treated. People who are not health care workers are not described as people "who could not do anything to help anybody".
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 35 by Faith, posted 08-22-2014 2:09 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 49 by Faith, posted 08-23-2014 8:38 AM | | NoNukes has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 49 of 58 (735743)
08-23-2014 8:38 AM
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Reply to: Message 48 by NoNukes
08-22-2014 6:27 PM
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People who are not health care workers are not described as people "who could not do anything to help anybody". This wording is my "shameful" offense?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 48 by NoNukes, posted 08-22-2014 6:27 PM | | NoNukes has not replied |
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Son Goku
Inactive Member
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Message 50 of 58 (735747)
08-23-2014 12:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 34 by Faith
08-22-2014 1:49 PM
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Faith writes: I can give you the usual Christian understanding of these things again, which you'll disparage again, which is that diseases of all kinds are the consequence of the Fall, i.e., human sin. We're all sinners, at odds with God by nature, nobody is immune, but those who have a repentant heart and trust in God do receive His favor. That's clear from the Bible. This medical missionary served God and was favored. But he did catch the deadly disease because of his sin nature. If more people served God as he does the less disease we would see in this world, or, the more He would favor us with cures for the diseases, through the scientific workers He has raised up for the purpose. This He has done for many diseases over the last century or so, which you refuse to thank Him for. In reality He is honoring those who know the true reason for western medicine and you are just an interference with the very scientific work you think you are supporting.
I'm just curious about how this works in your opinion. Do those who trust in God receive a superior immune system or is it that God "guides" the disease away from them? Did infectious diseases (e.g. viruses and bacteria) exist before the fall, but people were not damaged by them or were they created by the fall.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 34 by Faith, posted 08-22-2014 1:49 PM | | Faith has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 52 by NoNukes, posted 08-24-2014 10:09 PM | | Son Goku has not replied |
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NoNukes
Inactive Member
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Message 51 of 58 (735789)
08-24-2014 7:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 34 by Faith
08-22-2014 1:49 PM
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That's clear from the Bible. This medical missionary served God and was favored. But he did catch the deadly disease because of his sin nature. If more people served God as he does the less disease we would see in this world, Apparently, true Christians think the book of Job is all nonsense.
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 34 by Faith, posted 08-22-2014 1:49 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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NoNukes
Inactive Member
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Message 52 of 58 (735791)
08-24-2014 10:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 50 by Son Goku
08-23-2014 12:03 PM
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I'm just curious about how this works in your opinion. Do those who trust in God receive a superior immune system or is it that God "guides" the disease away from them? In Faith's defense, I don't see any claim on her part that Christians are less likely than non-Christians to get sick. Instead she is blaming the prevalence of disease on liberals, Methodists, Catholics, and you thankless, sinning atheists. We're all making fundies sick.
Did infectious diseases (e.g. viruses and bacteria) exist before the fall, but people were not damaged by them or were they created by the fall. The Bible says that the world was "good', which means there weren't any bad things because God always speaks in absolutes. Apparently God saw that talking, deceiving serpent as good too.
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 50 by Son Goku, posted 08-23-2014 12:03 PM | | Son Goku has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 54 by ringo, posted 08-25-2014 12:58 PM | | NoNukes has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 53 of 58 (735800)
08-25-2014 12:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 21 by Faith
08-21-2014 4:46 PM
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Faith writes: You'd prefer that one of those twenty doses went to a patient who couldn't do anything to help anybody?
I'd prefer that medical treatment went to the people who needed it most, not the people we can get the most out of.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 21 by Faith, posted 08-21-2014 4:46 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 431 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 54 of 58 (735801)
08-25-2014 12:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 52 by NoNukes
08-24-2014 10:09 PM
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NoNukes writes: We're all making fundies sick.
Maybe I should feel guilty about that but I don't. 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 52 by NoNukes, posted 08-24-2014 10:09 PM | | NoNukes has not replied |
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1523 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: 02-19-2004
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Message 55 of 58 (738220)
10-06-2014 5:11 PM
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How screwed are we?????
So we have a patient zero here in Dallas Texas. Another case in the states, and now in Spain a nurse with no travel history. How much are we not being told. How virulent is this disease and how worried should we be? I am getting quite concerned. 
"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 56 by Taq, posted 10-06-2014 5:17 PM | | 1.61803 has replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10028 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.3
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Message 56 of 58 (738221)
10-06-2014 5:17 PM
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Reply to: Message 55 by 1.61803
10-06-2014 5:11 PM
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Re: How screwed are we?????
Another case in the states, and now in Spain a nurse with no travel history. How much are we not being told. How virulent is this disease and how worried should we be? As an American, you should be more worried about measles than Ebola. "Ebola isn’t anywhere near as contagious as the flu, for example. Or measles, which is much more of a threat in the United States now that people are no longer routinely vaccinating their children. Scientists estimate that one person infected with measles can transmit the disease to as many as 18 others; for Ebola, that number is around two. This is because unlike influenza or measles, Ebola isn’t very stealthy. It can’t spread through the air, and it isn’t contagious before symptoms first show up, when a person might unknowingly be a walking disease distributor. Rather, the Ebola virus spreads through infected bodily fluidssuch as blood, vomit, saliva, semen and feceswhich need to come into direct contact with a mucous membrane (such as the inside of your eyelids, mouth, or nose) or a bit of broken skin." Ebola Explained: What You Should and Shouldn't Worry About | WIRED
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 55 by 1.61803, posted 10-06-2014 5:11 PM | | 1.61803 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 57 by 1.61803, posted 10-06-2014 5:39 PM | | Taq has replied |
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1523 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: 02-19-2004
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Message 57 of 58 (738224)
10-06-2014 5:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 56 by Taq
10-06-2014 5:17 PM
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Re: How screwed are we?????
Thanks Taq, Measles eh? Well I'm not scared of the measles. I should be but measles are one of those childhood diseases most us baby boomers had. I probably could survive a bout of measles. Ebola on the other hand is freaken scary. You get it you most likely die. No treatment, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. I keep envisioning that scene in the movie out break when they realize they under estimated the virus, or it mutated to the point of arisolized transmission. I appreciate the information though. I am glad I do not live in Western Africa at this particular moment.
"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 56 by Taq, posted 10-06-2014 5:17 PM | | Taq has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 58 by Taq, posted 10-06-2014 5:54 PM | | 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10028 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.3
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Message 58 of 58 (738225)
10-06-2014 5:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 57 by 1.61803
10-06-2014 5:39 PM
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Re: How screwed are we?????
Ebola on the other hand is freaken scary. You get it you most likely die. Same is true of HIV, and it is about as hard to pass on Ebola. For Ebola, you need bodily fluids/feces that directly contact a mucous membrane or broken skin which is about the same requirement for HIV. The only difference is that Ebola causes you to produce bodily fluids. The main thing is that people without symptoms are not infectious. You need to be sick in order to pass it on. Combine this with difficulty in transferring the virus, and you have a virus that we are very capable of controlling. The reason that it has spread so widely in Africa is a lack of proper treatment, lack of proper protection for workers, conspiracy theories that prevent people from going to the hospital, and burial rituals (from what I have heard).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 57 by 1.61803, posted 10-06-2014 5:39 PM | | 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied |
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