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Author Topic:   Some Help from the Creationist
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 136 of 140 (247931)
10-01-2005 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by riVeRraT
10-01-2005 12:47 PM


Re: knowing what a theory is...
Would you need scientific deduction if God spoke to you directly?
I think that would go something like this:
I am hearing a voice in my head that I have not heard before.
Other people have had similiar experiences.
Some of those people are religious.
Some of those people are psychotic schizoids.
I better see a doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by riVeRraT, posted 10-01-2005 12:47 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by black wolf, posted 10-01-2005 3:05 PM Nuggin has not replied
 Message 139 by riVeRraT, posted 10-01-2005 3:45 PM Nuggin has not replied

  
black wolf
Junior Member (Idle past 5871 days)
Posts: 10
From: Berlin, Germany
Joined: 09-02-2005


Message 137 of 140 (247964)
10-01-2005 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Nuggin
10-01-2005 1:01 PM


Re: knowing what a theory is...
To add to that:
Why are people having these experiences?
Because there are chemical and physical processes (which we have evidence for) going on in their brain that other people do not have.
Why do some people have these processes and others don't?
Because these processes are either predestined to happen by genetic layout, or they happen because at some point in the growth process of the brain, a randomly occurring divergence creates structures which start these processes.
Why are many people who experience these processes religious?
Because they have been socialized to believe that if something like these experiences happen, they are a sign from God(s), or ancestral spirits, or demons (sometimes all of these, to separate "good" impulses from the "evil" ones).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Nuggin, posted 10-01-2005 1:01 PM Nuggin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Ben!, posted 10-01-2005 3:13 PM black wolf has not replied

  
Ben!
Member (Idle past 1398 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 138 of 140 (247965)
10-01-2005 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by black wolf
10-01-2005 3:05 PM


Re: knowing what a theory is...
Why are people having these experiences?
Because there are chemical and physical processes (which we have evidence for) going on in their brain that other people do not have.
Your argument hinges on finding a causative mechanism between these experiences and the physical workings of the brain.
We haven't found it yet. For now, this boils down to a simple unsupported assertion. We barely have ideas about the NCC (neural correlates of consciousness), let alone the causative mechanism for consciousness.
Although please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. 'Cause if we do have such studies done, I would LOVE to read them!
(P.S. not sure if anybody welcomed you to the forum yet, but ... welcome to the forum!)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by black wolf, posted 10-01-2005 3:05 PM black wolf has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 139 of 140 (247969)
10-01-2005 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Nuggin
10-01-2005 1:01 PM


Re: knowing what a theory is...
Like I have been saying all along, the day I heard God is either the day I went crazy or the day I heard from God.
The problem with your THEORY is that I do not just hear voices in my head. Actually I do not hear any voices in my head. I did however once hear my name called out from directly behind me. That was before I "heard" from God. I have always been wondering if it was God speaking to me in an audible voice.
There are several ways God speaks to us. You will no doubt call it imagining things. Thats fine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Nuggin, posted 10-01-2005 1:01 PM Nuggin has not replied

  
gimelnus
Junior Member (Idle past 6217 days)
Posts: 4
From: Little Rock
Joined: 03-19-2007


Message 140 of 140 (390400)
03-20-2007 6:10 AM


Hey
Human beings differ in many ways. Some are tall, others short. Some are black, others white. Some prefer cornbread, others sushi. One of the great things about being human is that we are diverse - and that is because we have had different experiences. Even identical twins can have markedly contrasting worldviews.
Yes, Tyler Durden, we are all beautiful, unique snowflakes.
This diversity is expressed most profoundly with regard to belief. Some people are Christians, others Muslim, others Buddhist . and the list could go on indefinitely, but I’ll stop there lest I be castigated for omitting an obscure sect in South Africa. The point is there are many religions.
As a further example of diversity, let’s consider Christianity. “Christian” is a rather broad term employed by many groups: Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, andChurch of Christ, just to name a few (again, there are many more, so don’t choke on your communion wafer if I left you out.
Continuing the example, from this brief list I shall select Baptists. At my last unofficial count, I identified over thirty types of Baptists: Southern, Missionary, Independent, Seventh Day, Primitive, Reformed, ad naseum. From these, let’s continue with Missionary Baptists. Believe it or not (pun intended), there are many types of Missionary Baptists, e.g., “One-Cuppers,” who believe that during the Lord’s Supper (Communion), the congregation must all drink from the exact same cup, spit and all.
Then you have the ones who believe baptism must be done only in running water or the ones who believe the King James version of the Bible is the one and only truly inspired text. I can’t remember the names of the myriad sects that exist, but from years of experience as a devoted Missionary Baptist, I can say with confidence that there is an astonishing amount of variety even among this small division of Baptists.
Now let’s consider those unsanitary One-Cuppers. I’ve only been to one church that styled itself such, but from the testimony of the members, apparently there are others. Nonetheless, even within that small congregation of dogmatic One-Cuppers, there exists a considerable array of diversity with regard to personal belief.
No two people believe exactly the same things, not even a tiny sect so well defined and legalistic as One-Cupper Missionary Baptists.
Certainly there is a great deal of agreement among those people, but there are differences, some of which the congregation itself may not even recognize.
Why have I dragged you, the innocent, patient reader through all of this? If you were hoping that it would knock off a decade or two from your pending purgatory or garner you a couple of extra virgins in the afterlife, I’m sorry to disappoint you.
Follow my rambling diatribe a bit further and you might get that jewel in your crown after all, but I’m not making any promises.
So, what if we were to do the same to Islam as we did to Christianity above, that is, divide it into specific, well defined, distinct groups? It makes me wonder what the Muslim counterpart to One-Cuppers might be.
Religion, and much more so, individual belief, is remarkably diverse, and most everyone believes he/she has the truth, the correct way of perceiving and living life. Who is right? What should I believe? To whom should I give ear?
I was born and raised a Missionary Baptist, and I’ve always had a Christian bias, and specifically, a conservative Baptist one. What if I would have been born and raised Muslim? There is little doubt in my mind that I would, in that case, have a strong bias toward Islam. Even Atheism and Agnosticism are belief systems, regardless of their claims.
Inevitably, someone will tell me that I can’t prove anything, that I just need to “have faith,” but why should I have faith in one religion as opposed to another? Others have told me that it matters not which religion you choose, but that the important thing is that you believe something. Others still suggest that it’s the search that counts, the quest for truth, i.e., “to strive in itself is noble,” but that, too is a belief system.
Maybe belief is necessary; perhaps faith is attainable even for the skeptic. It could be that the quest for truth is all that matters. Maybe God does intend for me to share a cup with Sister Slobberlips.
I don’t know, but that’s just me - you’re different.
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