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Author Topic:   Bible Study Cover to Cover
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 16 of 117 (414057)
08-02-2007 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by macaroniandcheese
08-02-2007 12:23 PM


Re: apparently nobody actually reads the bible.
brennakimi writes:
this doesn't seem to be going anywhere, but i fully intend to keep it up.
Don't be discouraged. Say something really stupid and you'll hear from me.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by macaroniandcheese, posted 08-02-2007 12:23 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by macaroniandcheese, posted 08-02-2007 3:17 PM ringo has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 17 of 117 (414061)
08-02-2007 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by ringo
08-02-2007 3:14 PM


Re: apparently nobody actually reads the bible.
well. seeing as my thoughts were summed up in my notes, i don't think that's going to happen.
bible study doesn't necessarily mean 'zomg lets defend inerrancy'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 08-02-2007 3:14 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 08-02-2007 3:51 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 18 of 117 (414070)
08-02-2007 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by macaroniandcheese
08-02-2007 3:17 PM


Re: apparently nobody actually reads the bible.
brennakimi writes:
bible study doesn't necessarily mean 'zomg lets defend inerrancy'.
Errantists can be wrong too. If you ever are, I'll let you know.
Edited by Ringo, : Fixed smilie.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by macaroniandcheese, posted 08-02-2007 3:17 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 19 of 117 (414076)
08-02-2007 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by ringo
08-02-2007 3:51 PM


Re: apparently nobody actually reads the bible.
i don't get you. like, metaphysically. but that's okay.

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DorfMan
Member (Idle past 6081 days)
Posts: 282
From: New York
Joined: 09-08-2005


Message 20 of 117 (414078)
08-02-2007 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by macaroniandcheese
08-01-2007 2:10 PM


quote:
oh come on, it only took me like 6 hours to read the stupid think and between stuff at work.
Your annotations are hysterical. Literally. Condescending and an affront to a serious believer. Why would you discuss what you clearly do not understand and have no sense about? It's like watching a wet tee-shirt contest, once you've seen one, all the others are also boobs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by macaroniandcheese, posted 08-01-2007 2:10 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 117 (414081)
08-02-2007 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by DorfMan
08-02-2007 4:12 PM


Well, you could offer a more correct annotation. If you don't have anything constructive to contribute, why don't you shut the hell up?
-
P.S.
It's like watching a wet tee-shirt contest, once you've seen one, all the others are also boobs.
Talk about freaking condescending.
Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 22 of 117 (414083)
08-02-2007 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by DorfMan
08-02-2007 4:12 PM


after twenty-one years of being a serious believer, i think i've as much right to discuss it as anyone else. but i'm interested in a literary examination as much as a theological one. but i'm not sure what purpose a theological discussion really has, especially with someone of your attitude. in a theological discussion, i'll simply be faced with the same non-answers i've heard since childhood. i'm not convinced that they would give me a closer relationship with my god. as such, i'm stuck with a literary discussion. a literary discussion necessarily requires that one question the veracity of the statements presented and the defensibility of the positions taken.
if you're not prepared to do that, then i don't guess a literary discussion is for you.
but if, instead of proclaiming my ignorance, you wanted to discuss any particular issue, i'm more than willing to explain my thoughts and discuss the text with you.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 23 of 117 (414222)
08-03-2007 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by macaroniandcheese
08-01-2007 2:55 PM


Re: Six Days Did He Read, and on the 7th He rested
OK.. I was not paying attention. I'll comment only on the parts that interest me. I will read all of it, but I could care less about some of the historical accounts of ancient peoples long since gone. I suppose I never would make a good Bible scholar. You will hear my reply sometime before the end of the month. The OT has always been boring to me, however...why didnt you just skip to the NT??
Anyway...im sure there are a few highlights, and maybe if the discussion actually becomes interesting, it would substantiate the theory that God actually talks to our hearts through study of the Bible. Dunno, but I'll give it a fair shot.
I have just been busy at work, and between that and hanging out debating in the chat room, the last thing I usually think about is actually reading the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 24 of 117 (414226)
08-03-2007 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Phat
08-03-2007 2:18 PM


Re: Six Days Did He Read, and on the 7th He rested
The OT has always been boring to me, however...why didnt you just skip to the NT??
because it's too cool for me
mostly because i've yet to manage to read the whole thing and i thought it'd be a good excuse to start. motivation, wot.
but so much of the theology is really based in the ot and to really get a solid look at the basis for what is in the nt you've got to read the old stuff. it can't stand alone. plus you get people saying "oh well this is from the ot and it's a prophecy and blah blah blah" but if we haven't read the ot, then we don't know what we're talking about, do we?
I have just been busy at work, and between that and hanging out debating in the chat room, the last thing I usually think about is actually reading the Bible.
this seems to be the general consensus.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 25 of 117 (414227)
08-03-2007 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by macaroniandcheese
08-01-2007 9:21 AM


Re: August 1, Genesis.
A couple points.
First, you are very right about the differences in God in the two Creation Myths. The God found in the younger myth of Genesis 1 is separate from the creation, transcendent, aloof and creates simply by an act of will.
The God of the next myth, the older story, is far more human. This God is hands on, a tinkerer, but very intimate, very much present within the creation.
The second and I think very important point that you touch on is that naming something, knowing its real name, gives on power over it. This feature is missing from the younger tale found in Genesis 1, but is interlaced throughout the rest of Genesis.
Genesis 2:23 reflects that, since it is Adam that names "Woman" is a continuation of the control theme.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 26 of 117 (414239)
08-03-2007 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by jar
08-03-2007 2:45 PM


Re: August 1, Genesis.
i quite agree. i'm interested in seeing where either idea of god is demonstrated in the rest of the text. i think this second god is the one who fought with jacob. it is this god i want to know. i wonder which god is the god of job? i wonder what modern christianity would be like if we really knew the god of genesis 2. our god is so distant and aloof, even though we talk about him being very present. is it just that nasty modern thought which demands that god be distant because of the lack of evidence?
i wonder about this idea of names. it's clear that god is very clever and we'll see more about him evading man's attempts to learn his name and control him. maybe this is all so much more philosophical than we imagined. we really can't fully understand god (or the universe) until we know everything about him. but if we learn his name, can we control him and be greater than he is? if that's the case, god would certainly never permit that. i can't imagine anyways. but note a bride takes the name of her husband. if we are to be his bride, then we will have his name and then call ourselves by it. which then brings the idea that we'd have our own real name and be able to control ourselves...
i could do this for hours.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 27 of 117 (414245)
08-03-2007 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by macaroniandcheese
08-03-2007 3:11 PM


On the evolution of God
Remember, what we are seeing is the evolving human image of God.
i'm interested in seeing where either idea of god is demonstrated in the rest of the text.
Be careful. You also need to remember that it is not one story, but as I have mentioned in the past, an anthology of anthologies. Many of the stories are actually combinations of several different stories, so even within one story there can be inconsistencies. That is particularly so in the Flood myths where several different stories were combined into one which results in the different numbers of critters and types of birds being the harbingers of the end of the flood.
The bit about naming though is very important. At the time some of the stories were written, the idea of controlling someone or something by naming it was a major influence, and we even see hints of that continuing into the NT.
AbE:
our god is so distant and aloof, even though we talk about him being very present. is it just that nasty modern thought which demands that god be distant because of the lack of evidence?
No.
As you can see from the creation myth found in Genesis 1, the idea of a trancendent God is not modern, but rather has a long, long history.
Edited by jar, : No reason given.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by macaroniandcheese, posted 08-03-2007 3:11 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 28 of 117 (414250)
08-03-2007 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
08-03-2007 3:36 PM


Re: On the evolution of God
Be careful. You also need to remember that it is not one story, but as I have mentioned in the past, an anthology of anthologies.
naturally. but it was compiled by a much smaller number of people who probably selected specific story renderings based on their personal theology. and, while i don't think the book is particularly inspired, i do think it got to us the way it did for a reason.
As you can see from the creation myth found in Genesis 1, the idea of a trancendent God is not modern, but rather has a long, long history.
i didn't mean modern as 20th century, or even 1500 (the political definition). i think i was referring to the generally post-tribal world. those who are less likely to see miracles, i guess. but yes, it clearly has a long history.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 08-03-2007 3:36 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 29 of 117 (414251)
08-03-2007 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by macaroniandcheese
08-03-2007 3:47 PM


Re: On the evolution of God
but it was compiled by a much smaller number of people who probably selected specific story renderings based on their personal theology.
Don't limit it to just theology.
It is important to remember that the contents were also selected for political reasons, and for societal reasons, for economic reasons, and for legal necessity. Almost all of these were also specific to a particular milieu.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 30 of 117 (414252)
08-03-2007 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by jar
08-03-2007 3:56 PM


Re: On the evolution of God
well naturally. i was just being specific to that particular issue since we were talking about the nature of god.

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