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Author Topic:   Star Trek Into Darkness... what a boring disappointment
Taz
Member (Idle past 3310 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 1 of 10 (699427)
05-19-2013 12:50 PM


As a trekkie, I was super excited for the alternate timeline reboot of the franchise. It was obvious by the 3rd season of Star Trek Enterprise that the writers had run out of plot lines and character development. So, this reboot gave star trek a new opportunity to be more than the legacy of the lame star trek original boring plots.
That said, my wife reluctantly went to see this movie with me after much convincing. What a disappointment it turned out for both of us.
First of all, the one thing that jumped out screaming at both of us was Uhura's major major major character flaw.
Let me tell you a short story about my past before I can adequately explain this character flaw. Once upon a time, I had a girlfriend name Gina. No, that's really not her name, but we'll just call her that for now. Gina was passionate, emotional, and downright selfish. One time, we were suppose to go out to a movie when we found out her best friend had just been scammed. We'll call the best friend Nancy. Again, not her real name.
Nancy had been "dating" this guy online. They finally decided to meet. Long story short, the guy scammed her out of several thousand dollars. Both Gina and I knew of Nancy's suicidal past, having been in and out of institutions several times in the past. So, I suggested that instead of going to a movie (it was going to be a chick flick anyway), we should go and spend some time with Nancy. It was, after all, her best friend.
So, we went and spent the evening with Nancy, listening to her talk and cry. All that stuff. Well, after that night, Gina stopped talking to me for several days. When she finally came around again, she explained to me that she was outraged that I decided to put her friend Nancy above her like that. Yes, a damn chick flick movie was more important than your suicidal best friend.
That was just the tip of the ice berg about Gina, but I hope you get the gist of what I mean by major character flaw.
The writers of Star Trek Into Darkness decided to make Uhura this naively selfish bitch with major major character flaw. Earth was about to go to war with the Klingon Empire. Enterprise was about to be destroyed. Their mentor and best friend had just died. And all she could think about was Spock's decision for the greater good over their relationship?
Wasn't Star Trek Original sexist enough? Every time I think of the original series, I think of that one line by a female officer to Kirk in a situation where Kirk needed her help. "But Captain, I'm just a girl..." Kirk ended up having to break out of his chains and save both their asses.
Why do these star trek writers continue to portray the woman figure as ball and chain of the man figure?
After the movie, both my wife and I said at the same time that Uhura reminded both of us of Gina.
I have to go run do something now. Will come back for more in depth discussion of why Into Darkness was a boring disappointment, and why I doubt I will ever be able to convince my wife to come out with me to another scifi flick again.
Edit.
Uhura's character flaw doesn't stop there. She is a completely unempathetic psycho bitch that can't think about anything else beside herself.
Spock watched his homeworld and billions of his people died right in front of his eyes. Give the guy a break! What happened to the nurturing part of being a female? Again, the federation is about to go to war with the Klingon Empire. The Enterprise is about to be destroyed. Kirk is dead. And all she could think about is "me me me me me me me me me".
When Spock is fighting a desperate battle with Khan, the Enterprise could only beam someone down. So, Uhura grabbed the spot and beamed herself down... while wearing a shorter than short skirt.
A few years ago when I was still a cop, one time I showed up to an attempted suicide scene where a young man had shot himself. The mom was hysterical and wouldn't let her son go. A couple guys had to pull her out so the paramedics could take her son to the emergency room to save his life.
You know, sometimes the best way to help someone is to stand aside and let the pros do their work.
Spock was getting his ass kicked and Uhura beamed down? Remember how capable Mr. Sulu was in the first movie? Sulu should have been the one to beam down to help Spock and tell him they needed Khan alive to save Kirk.
I am sick and tired of science fiction writers continue to be so blatantly sexist like that in their writings.
Let's step back and look at the character development in the movie.
(1) By 1/4 of the way through, Kirk had learned that vengeance is not the answer and that sometimes he needs to make sacrifices for the greater good.
(2) By 1/4 of the way through the movie, Spock had learned that sometimes the situation necessitates the need to bend the rules a little.
(3) Uhura... never learned anything. Right to the end, all she could think about was herself. There was never a moment of "oh, perhaps I should put my feelings aside for now to save our civilization..."
What kind of bullshit story writing is this? How is this any different than the sexist pig version of Kirk in the 70s? Someone like Uhura who doesn't know when to stand aside for the greater good shouldn't be on a military vessel, let alone a starship. The screening process should have weeded her out long ago.
One of the reasons my wife never liked scifi is it's always had sexist undertones to them. I was sure this one was different. Boy, was I wrong.
Anyway, onto other things.
The whole movie was too boring! It was like they never tried to surprise us at all. When it was revealed that this villain was Khan, my mind started thinking about how Spock would die. So, I'll give them that (the role reversal). But as soon as Kirk died, my mind flashed back to when McCoy injected the dribble with Khan's blood and how Khan's blood saved that little girl at the beginning of the movie.
Heck, my wife never saw any other star trek movie or episode. This would be the first star trek anything she saw, and as soon as Kirk died she knew they were going to bring him back with Khan's blood.
But I think the biggest problem with this movie is that nothing about it makes you care.
The point of an adventure movie like this is you're suppose to relate to the characters. When the characters hurts, you are hurt. When the characters triumph, you celebrate. That's why the Wrath of Khan was so powerful. You as the audience connects so personally to Kirk.
Let me be blunt. My wife admitted after the movie that had one or more of the main characters (like Spock, Uhura, Sulu, etc.) died, she wouldn't have cared. And I found myself thinking the same thing. In fact, the story was so predictable and boring that by the time they reached the moon I couldn't wait for the movie to end.
That's the danger of putting too much mindless action into the movie. The characters stop being important. And the audience stop caring what happens to them.
A final thought. After two 5-seasons shows, three 7-seasons shows, 12 movies, and god knows how many books, we still have no gay characters. In fact, the subject hasn't even mentioned at all. Instead, we continue to get the typical toxic female traits that we've been getting since the original series came out.
If you're going to do a reboot, do a reboot. Stop portraying female characters and ball and chain for the male characters. And give us a little more diversity than all straight morons.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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Son Goku
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 10 (699428)
05-19-2013 2:24 PM


KAHN!!
My wife is a huge Star Trek fan, so I went to see it with her. I'd never really seen much of the show outside of watching a few episodes of the next generation when I was younger. Overall it was quite enjoyable, but I think Benedict Cumberbatch's character could have been developed a good bit more. He just stood around being portentous for most of the movie.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Taz, posted 05-19-2013 2:44 PM Son Goku has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3310 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 3 of 10 (699429)
05-19-2013 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Son Goku
05-19-2013 2:24 PM


Re: KAHN!!
^^ Speaking of Cumberbatch, I don't think he's going to win any award with that acting.

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 Message 2 by Son Goku, posted 05-19-2013 2:24 PM Son Goku has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8527
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 4 of 10 (699435)
05-19-2013 4:30 PM


This is real hard to take. To have The Star Trek so torn, so abused. Makes me want to howl like Worf doing the Klingon Death Cry. Star Trek formed us. It inspired us. Entire generations of teens came of age aboard the Enterprise.
Such a loss.
Some present 13 year old kid is going to watch this show and think it's the coolest, isn't he.
OK, so now we're old ... the magic goes on without us.

  
Shield
Member (Idle past 2881 days)
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-29-2008


Message 5 of 10 (699436)
05-19-2013 4:58 PM


Review from slashdot:
Let’s get this out of the way up front: Star Trek: Into Darkness is a very entertaining film, and you will probably enjoy it.
Into Darkness hits the ground running, quickly reintroducing the rebooted crew and the Enterprise in all its glory. The opening act reminds us of everything we like about the 2009 Star Trek; snappy dialog, direct references to important parts of the original TV show, and cinematography that shows off the power, grace, and majesty of a Federation starship. It also highlights many of the differences between classic Trek and Abrams Trek.
*
In Abrams Trek, everything is fast. Kirk runs fast, Spock talks fast, crewmembers are always scrambling about the bridge and engineering at top speed, and as soon as a decision is made, action is taken. Tension and conflict arises with immediacy, and is resolved at the same pace. In Abrams Trek, no screentime is wasted. If a section of dialog is a bit technobabbley or it’s just providing background, something shiny will appear to keep your eyes and your attention engaged. In Abrams Trek, the lens flare deserves its own billing. Oh my, the lens flare.
But the big question about the Abrams films, both in 2009 and 2013, is: are they Star Trek? It’s a complicated issue, but one that's worth answering to fans of the various Trek TV series. Let's start by answering a somewhat simpler question: are they sci-fi? Not really. They fit the Hollywood definition of sci-fi after all, they're flying spaceships and talking to aliens but of course sci-fi is more than that. It's about ideas; it's about taking some part of life and changing it, then seeing what happens as a result. That's why Leguin, Dick, and Vonnegut are celebrated as sci-fi writers alongside Bradbury, Asimov, and Niven.
Into Darkness and the 2009 Star Trek before it aren't about ideas. They're unrepentantly character-driven. They're space operas. Perhaps more importantly, they're action films. I say this not to be exclusionary, but so we can evaluate in the proper context: as a Trek-themed action movie, Into Darkness is fantastic.
But Trek isn't about action (space opera, sometimes action, no). It has certainly incorporated action; Kirk didn't get the reputation for always having a torn shirt for nothing. But in the TV shows, the action was punctuation; it was the set-up to the plot, or a way to resolve it once a moral issue had been defeated. In Day of the Dove, we were constantly shown fight scenes, but their purpose was to show the exaggerated hatreds of the characters, and to set up the we-must-work-together ending. And let's be clear: Abrams Trek isn't the first time the movie franchise departed toward action, either. Star Trek 2, widely regarded as the best of the films, was certainly a space opera, and you could make the case that it's an action film. The last three Next Generation films tried to be action films and failed. Abrams Trek tries and succeeds.
So, is it Trek? Well, it doesn't pass the sci-fi test, but let's look at the characters. Christopher Pine's Kirk is an exaggeration of Shatner's Kirk. All the characteristics of Shatner's Kirk are present in Pine's Kirk, but magnified tremendously. On the TV show, Kirk had a reputation as a womanizer. In Abrams Trek, Kirk is shown waking up in bed with space-babes and hitting on almost every female he comes in contact with. A lot of times it's for comedic effect, and succeeds at being funny, but it also feels like a caricature. Zachary Quinto's Spock felt much more natural to me this time around, in some ways. He pulls off Vulcan stoicism well. The only downside is that his emotional control feels like a simple prop; he maintains his facade until the writers need to show how important some event is, then it breaks.
The other familiar crew members each get a brief moment in the spotlight, but the limitations of a two-hour movie prevent any significant depth. Bones exists to crack jokes and repeat his catchphrases. Chekov exists to run around looking overwhelmed. Scotty exists to solve whatever problem is keeping the plot from moving forward. Simon Pegg's Scotty is still jarring, to me. His role as comic relief doesn’t mesh well with my perception of Scotty. (People unfamiliar with the original series probably wouldn't notice, or care; he is funny.) Doohan's Scotty was funny sometimes, but not in such an intentional way. It seems odd to have that character cracking wise. Sulu's screentime is brief, but it's good.
The one character I truly lament is Uhura, though not because of any complaint with Saldana. She serves to highlight one huge difference between Abrams Trek and classic Trek: Abrams Trek is a guy-movie. The majority of Uhura's role in Into Darkness is to be Spock's love-interest. She has one brief moment of being her own person, showing her own strengths and (very minor spoiler) she fails and has to be rescued by men. Aside from Uhura, there's only one other significant woman character in the film, and her main purpose is to be both eye-candy and a bargaining chip for the men. In fact, thinking back, I'm pretty sure Into Darkness fails the Bechdel test. It bothers me that this happens in a Star Trek film. One of Trek's driving principles is a future of equality; a future free of the sexism and racism and classism we deal with today. It's not always an easy thing to write into a story, especially one limited to two hours but we should at least try.
*
But let's step back to the more mundane aspects of the film, for a moment. The visuals are absolutely stunning. The alien planets, outer space, and a futuristic Earth are all fascinating to see. More importantly, Abrams shows us the Enterprise as we've always wanted to see her. Whether it's tearing off into high warp, diving through the atmosphere of a planet, or having the hull torn open by phaser fire, the ship looks amazing. The inside looks amazing, too engineering looks much more like the belly of an enormously complex spacecraft than ever before. The special effects budget was well spent. ...Mostly. Abrams is known for his use of lens flare, but rather than toning it back, it seems like he's doubling down on that reputation. There are also a few action sequences where camera shaking and flashes of light get a bit excessive. I get that moving the camera really fast around a completely CGI environment helps to mask the imperfections, but there are times where you'll know a whole lot is going on without being exactly sure what. I'd happily take a slightly-less-crazy chase scene if I can get a clear look at it.
The scoring is solid. Into Darkness takes its main theme from the 2009 movie, with a few improvements. It doesn't get in the way. The acting is generally fine, as well. The regulars are more comfortable in the roles; this time around, they're playing themselves as much as they’re playing the original crew. Benedict Cumberbatch brings his talent to a leading role, and he does well with what he was given, but he could have been utilized better. His character exists in two modes complete stillness and furious action. There’s very little in between, and I think that middle-ground is where Cumberbatch thrives, as on BBC's Sherlock. Still, his character made a far more compelling opponent for Kirk than 2009's Nero.
*
There were a few points where the acting did strike a discordant note for me. To explain why, I'm going to step back for a moment and discuss one of the major themes of the Star Trek reboot. J.J. Abrams and the others running the show constantly use aspects of the original show props, plots, attitudes, and characters to inform the reboot. However, they’re very, very consistent about re-interpreting all of those aspects. Everything is close enough to be familiar, but different enough seem new. In most cases, it works; new phasers just look better than old phasers. New Spock is different from Old Spock, but not in a bad way. In Into Darkness, we meet a familiar alien race, and the re-interpretation makes them feel a bit alien again. But it doesn't always work, and this leads me back to the acting. Without spoiling the content, there are a few scenes that are much more direct adaptations of old Star Trek scenes than we saw in the 2009 movie. It is a really interesting and cool concept, but the execution felt very odd, for me. I'll try to describe it: knowing how the scene was "supposed" to go, it felt as though the actors were trying to recreate it, but failing. Obviously, this is not the case; it was clearly planned, scripted, and shot with painstaking care, until they got exactly what they wanted. Still, the similarity hit an uncanny valley between original and re-interpretation. Fortunately for most viewers, anyone who isn’t much of a Trek fan isn't likely to notice or care.
As a long-time Trek fan, Star Trek: Into Darkness occupies a conflicted spot in my mind. At the most basic level, I went to a movie and really enjoyed it. I don't regret the $10 I spent on it, and I suspect most people would feel the same. At the same time, I'm a bit troubled by the direction the franchise is taking. There are a whole generation of kids who are now growing up with a very different perception of Star Trek than I did. To them, it's going to be just another Transformers-style action flick with no lasting importance. There's none of the idealism, optimism, or broadmindedness that was inherent to classic Trek. It's not hard to see why that is; stories like that are much harder to tell on the silver screen, and even when done well, they don't make as much money. They're much better suited to episodic TV. Unfortunately, if we see a new Trek TV series (more likely: when we see a new Trek TV series), you can bet it will be done in the style of the Abrams reboot, and I worry that the true sci-fi stories and the thought-provoking allegories will be subsumed by over-the-top action and relentless special effects. At the same time, I think some Trek is better than no Trek, and the two Abrams films make a better legacy for the franchise than Insurrection and Nemesis. I almost envy non-Trek-fans for not having to resolve the conflict of What Trek Is versus What Trek Isn't.
Personnally i cant be bothered to see it. The last Star Trek movie sucked more balls than TNG: Nemesis.
But what can you expect from a director, who says he dosent really like Star Trek.
Edited by rbp, : No reason given.

  
Heathen
Member (Idle past 1302 days)
Posts: 1067
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 6 of 10 (699448)
05-20-2013 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
05-19-2013 12:50 PM


*SPOILER ALERT* subtitle please
I would have been grateful if you'd've subtitled this thread with "SPOILER ALERT".
As it is I've learned too much about a movie I haven't seen yet.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 05-19-2013 12:50 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Dogmafood, posted 05-20-2013 9:35 AM Heathen has replied

  
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 367 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 7 of 10 (699457)
05-20-2013 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Heathen
05-20-2013 8:04 AM


Re: *SPOILER ALERT* subtitle please
Be advised that not all hazards are marked.
Out of curiosity, what did you think they would be talking about in this thread?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Heathen, posted 05-20-2013 8:04 AM Heathen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Heathen, posted 05-20-2013 10:27 AM Dogmafood has not replied

  
Heathen
Member (Idle past 1302 days)
Posts: 1067
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 8 of 10 (699459)
05-20-2013 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Dogmafood
05-20-2013 9:35 AM


Re: *SPOILER ALERT* subtitle please
well I guess, perhaps a general discussion, perhaps encouraging me/discouraging me from seeing it.
discussion of acting/special effects, direction etc
but not a near total expose of the plot!:
"The Enterprise is about to be destroyed. Kirk is dead"
"Spock is fighting a desperate battle with Khan"
"When it was revealed that this villain was Khan"
"how Khan's blood saved that little girl at the beginning of the movie."
what's left to see??

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Dogmafood, posted 05-20-2013 9:35 AM Dogmafood has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Taz, posted 05-20-2013 9:45 PM Heathen has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10028
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 9 of 10 (699464)
05-20-2013 10:44 AM


My Review
Quite simply, it's a great sci-fi adventure flick, but a bad Star Trek flick. It's a rollercoaster ride without any substance or cerebral content. What few moral dilemmas that do exist are brushed over to make room for more actions scenes. At one moment Kirk is being punished for making brash decisions that go against Starfleet regs, and the next he is being rewarded for doing the same. Spock is . . . . well, not Spock. Everything I found endearing about the Nimoy Spock has been chewed up and spit out.
At the same time, I really enjoyed the film for what it is. It's just too bad that the film could not be more.

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3310 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(1)
Message 10 of 10 (699517)
05-20-2013 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Heathen
05-20-2013 10:27 AM


Re: *SPOILER ALERT* subtitle please
Heathen, I know what you're saying, and I'm sorry I ruined it for you.
That said, would you like to know more about the movie? I can write a complete spoiler review for you.
Yes, I'm an ass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Heathen, posted 05-20-2013 10:27 AM Heathen has not replied

  
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