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Author Topic:   Game critics snipe, but +2 is aim true?
nos482
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 14 (20905)
10-27-2002 11:54 AM


Oct 20, 2002
Game critics snipe, but +2 is aim true?
MCGREGOR MCCANCE
TECH NOTES
Contact McGregor McCance at (804) 649-6348 or mmccance@timesdispatch.com
The first time my young nephew boasted that he scored a head shot in "Counter-Strike," my stomach twisted up like a pretzel.
Does this kid know the difference between a video game and real life, I wondered? Would he squeeze off a headshot on good old Uncle Mac just as easily?
But then I woke up. It's just a game. Plus, that's why he has a mom and a dad - to teach him these kinds of obvious differences. Right?
Despite that one uneasy thought, I remain convinced that video games can't push people into acts of violence. That sometimes seems like a lonely opinion.
Predictably, some are determined to establish a link between video-game violence and the real-world sniper attacks. At the least, they're eager to suggest one.
Can video games induce people into violent acts? Click the link to speak up in the business forum.
This seems ridiculous. Unless the actual sniper's weapon has a computer mouse and keyboard connected to it, how could clicking a mouse button translate into the actual skill?
Plenty of people think they have an answer for that. So blaming video games is not an uncommon reaction to any kind of unusual violence.
It happened three years ago during the Columbine, Colo., school shootings. Remember, the killers were students who devoted hours to playing "Doom," one of the original "first-person shooters."
These are video games, typically violent, that give the player a first-person perspective. A player with a sniper rifle, for example, can zoom in on his target.
As personal computer hardware and software continue to advance, the games supposedly get more "realistic."
I'm still trying to figure out why and how looking at a computer monitor is realistic.
I love playing the games, but they look like cartoons.
An episode of "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation" is much more "realistic." Reading "Silence of the Lambs" or any of Patricia Cornwell's novels is more realistic than "Doom" or "Counter-Strike" any day.
These games are getting prettier and much more violent. The 3-D graphics make them more engaging and challenging, more fun. But many aren't for kids. Parents need to step up if they don't want their children playing "Counter-Strike" or watching movies like "Pulp Fiction."
The games may not train killers, some suggest, but they desensitize people to violence. I don't challenge the idea that the constant promotion and images of violence, sex, alcohol and the like on TV and in other media reduces the content's shock value.
Does this mean someone who yawns at another person getting blown up in the latest movie - or the latest news on CNN from the Middle East - eventually thinks it's OK to blow people up? Or worse, does it mean that person would actually blow up his neighbor as a result?
That's incredible.
A husband who beats his wife or a teenager who guns down his classmates has problems far more serious than anything a video game can induce.
Pulling the trigger on a real sniper rifle and killing someone is an individual decision. Put the blame where it belongs - on the person who commits the act.
Contact McGregor McCance at (804) 649-6348 or mmccance@timesdispatch.com
This story can be found at: File not found

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Andya Primanda, posted 10-27-2002 7:38 PM nos482 has replied

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 14 (20917)
10-27-2002 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by nos482
10-27-2002 11:54 AM


As a personal opinion, I hate CounterStrike. The players shout and curse each other--in stereo where available. (Here counterstrike is usually played in Net cafes)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nos482, posted 10-27-2002 11:54 AM nos482 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by nos482, posted 10-27-2002 9:01 PM Andya Primanda has replied

  
nos482
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 14 (20919)
10-27-2002 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Andya Primanda
10-27-2002 7:38 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Andya Primanda:
As a personal opinion, I hate CounterStrike. The players shout and curse each other--in stereo where available. (Here counterstrike is usually played in Net cafes)
I've only seen it played, I haven't played it myself. I'm more into RPGs like Morrowind. Maybe I'm a devil worshipper?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Andya Primanda, posted 10-27-2002 7:38 PM Andya Primanda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Andya Primanda, posted 10-27-2002 9:48 PM nos482 has replied
 Message 6 by Mammuthus, posted 10-28-2002 7:24 AM nos482 has replied

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 14 (20923)
10-27-2002 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by nos482
10-27-2002 9:01 PM


CS is like a live-action movie. Maybe like...Black Hawk Down (without the surrounding civilians). Sport-management gamer (Championship Manager,etc.), I am. Anyway if you worship the devil then you cannot be an atheist/agnostic no more

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by nos482, posted 10-27-2002 9:01 PM nos482 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by nos482, posted 10-28-2002 6:51 AM Andya Primanda has not replied

  
nos482
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 14 (20936)
10-28-2002 6:51 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Andya Primanda
10-27-2002 9:48 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Andya Primanda:
CS is like a live-action movie. Maybe like...Black Hawk Down (without the surrounding civilians). Sport-management gamer (Championship Manager,etc.), I am. Anyway if you worship the devil then you cannot be an atheist/agnostic no more
Well, those who assert than violent video games cause people to go out and kill others also assert that role playing games (D&D) are devil worship as well.
Plus, didn't you know that not believing in god is the same as being a devil worshipper as well?
[This message has been edited by nos482, 10-28-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Andya Primanda, posted 10-27-2002 9:48 PM Andya Primanda has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6476 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 6 of 14 (20937)
10-28-2002 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by nos482
10-27-2002 9:01 PM


quote:
Originally posted by nos482:
quote:
Originally posted by Andya Primanda:
As a personal opinion, I hate CounterStrike. The players shout and curse each other--in stereo where available. (Here counterstrike is usually played in Net cafes)
I've only seen it played, I haven't played it myself. I'm more into RPGs like Morrowind. Maybe I'm a devil worshipper?

***************************+
Morrowind is awesome...well after it was patched and the mouse crash bug and slide show graphics were improved (note Dagoth Ur was a moronic nemesis..kept falling into lava)
But nothing can up the adrenaline like a few good rounds of Unreal Tournament

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by nos482, posted 10-27-2002 9:01 PM nos482 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by John, posted 10-28-2002 8:17 AM Mammuthus has replied
 Message 8 by nos482, posted 10-28-2002 8:50 AM Mammuthus has replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 14 (20938)
10-28-2002 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Mammuthus
10-28-2002 7:24 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Mammuthus:
But nothing can up the adrenaline like a few good rounds of Unreal Tournament

If you guys have a PS2, check out The Mark of Kri. It is quite amazing, though much too short.
------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Mammuthus, posted 10-28-2002 7:24 AM Mammuthus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Mammuthus, posted 10-29-2002 4:00 AM John has not replied

  
nos482
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 14 (20940)
10-28-2002 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Mammuthus
10-28-2002 7:24 AM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mammuthus:
Morrowind is awesome...well after it was patched and the mouse crash bug and slide show graphics were improved (note Dagoth Ur was a moronic nemesis..kept falling into lava)
I loved Morrowind, it took me a couple months to play it since I don't have a life.
But nothing can up the adrenaline like a few good rounds of Unreal Tournament
I just got UT 2003. It's good, but I find that the levels are smaller than the older ones.
[This message has been edited by nos482, 10-28-2002]
{10/28/02 - Moved topic to "Coffee House" - Adminnemooseus
[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 10-28-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Mammuthus, posted 10-28-2002 7:24 AM Mammuthus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by mark24, posted 10-28-2002 7:25 PM nos482 has not replied
 Message 11 by Mammuthus, posted 10-29-2002 3:59 AM nos482 has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5196 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 9 of 14 (20959)
10-28-2002 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by nos482
10-28-2002 8:50 AM


Hi all,
Speaking as a Brit. It was interesting to see how our PC gaming media dealt with Americas Army. For those of you not in the know, Americas Army is gaming software designed (well, paid for) by none other than the US Army as a recruiting exercise. The media was UNANIMOUS in saying that AA was EXCELLENT. It was interesting to see them squirm, because a government institution as staid as the Army can' make good games, right? They clearly didn't WANT to endorse this software, but simply had to. It's great. AND It's FREE.
It's not complete, it WILL have additions, & it's multiplayer only. But for warfare accuracy afficionados, it's heaven sent. It's HARD to kill people, just like real life. I STILL can't qualify as a sniper on the range... Did I mention it's free?
Uncle Sam NEEDS you!
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by nos482, posted 10-28-2002 8:50 AM nos482 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Mammuthus, posted 10-29-2002 3:07 AM mark24 has replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6476 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 10 of 14 (20977)
10-29-2002 3:07 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by mark24
10-28-2002 7:25 PM


quote:
Originally posted by mark24:
Hi all,
Speaking as a Brit. It was interesting to see how our PC gaming media dealt with Americas Army. For those of you not in the know, Americas Army is gaming software designed (well, paid for) by none other than the US Army as a recruiting exercise. The media was UNANIMOUS in saying that AA was EXCELLENT. It was interesting to see them squirm, because a government institution as staid as the Army can' make good games, right? They clearly didn't WANT to endorse this software, but simply had to. It's great. AND It's FREE.
It's not complete, it WILL have additions, & it's multiplayer only. But for warfare accuracy afficionados, it's heaven sent. It's HARD to kill people, just like real life. I STILL can't qualify as a sniper on the range... Did I mention it's free?
Uncle Sam NEEDS you!
Mark

************************
There is a similar game that is older called Operation Flashpoint. It was also a semi-realistic army campaign simulator. It is fairly difficult to play which can lead to some hysterically funny accidents i.e. watch where you aim when using a tank command does not like it when you blow them up

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by mark24, posted 10-28-2002 7:25 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by mark24, posted 10-29-2002 7:59 AM Mammuthus has replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6476 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 11 of 14 (20981)
10-29-2002 3:59 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by nos482
10-28-2002 8:50 AM


I loved Morrowind, it took me a couple months to play it since I don't have a life.
M: I am still playing even though I finished the main quest..mostly to level up for the Tribunal expansion pack....I do have a life but I don't get much sleep
N:
I just got UT 2003. It's good, but I find that the levels are smaller than the older ones.
M: I was totally addicted to UT. But somehow UT2003 did not grab my attention. They spent too much effort on the game engine and too little on level design and actually making it fun. It is not getting very favorable reviews from what I see so I will stay away.
A fun multiplayer game is Alien versus Predator 2. The hunt mode where there is one predator and a few marines that he is stalking is really really cool. Makes for tense playing. Evac and Overrun are also pretty cool but it is really a game where if you end up with even a couple of jerks in the group it ruins the whole game so I found it really hard to find decent servers to play on. But when I did it was absolutely great.
I hope Deus Ex 2 has a good multiplayer feature...but my guess is they will focus much more on the single player.
As always, to many things to do...so little time

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by nos482, posted 10-28-2002 8:50 AM nos482 has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6476 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 12 of 14 (20982)
10-29-2002 4:00 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by John
10-28-2002 8:17 AM


quote:
Originally posted by John:
quote:
Originally posted by Mammuthus:
But nothing can up the adrenaline like a few good rounds of Unreal Tournament

If you guys have a PS2, check out The Mark of Kri. It is quite amazing, though much too short.

***********************++
I have not been much of a console fan since the days of Atari and Pong
But I heard really good things about Halo for Xbox.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by John, posted 10-28-2002 8:17 AM John has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5196 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 13 of 14 (20990)
10-29-2002 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Mammuthus
10-29-2002 3:07 AM


quote:
There is a similar game that is older called Operation Flashpoint. It was also a semi-realistic army campaign simulator. It is fairly difficult to play which can lead to some hysterically funny accidents i.e. watch where you aim when using a tank command does not like it when you blow them up.
I played it on my brothers machine. I found it really hard to control.
My favourite franchise has to be the rainbow 6/rogue spear/ghost recon line. Very accurate, good graphics & sound, a BLAST in multi-player. If I could change anything it would be to put Americas Army aim system into Ghost Recon.
quote:
A fun multiplayer game is Alien versus Predator 2. The hunt mode where there is one predator and a few marines that he is stalking is really really cool. Makes for tense playing. Evac and Overrun are also pretty cool but it is really a game where if you end up with even a couple of jerks in the group it ruins the whole game so I found it really hard to find decent servers to play on. But when I did it was absolutely great.
This is a problem that ALL mp team based games have. There's always some prat that thinks it's funny to kill his own teammates. It is a real pleasure to spend an evening with good humoured players who cooperate, & don't mind taking it in turns covering the rear, & other critical but less popular roles that usually involves long periods with little action.
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Mammuthus, posted 10-29-2002 3:07 AM Mammuthus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Mammuthus, posted 10-29-2002 8:16 AM mark24 has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6476 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 14 of 14 (20992)
10-29-2002 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by mark24
10-29-2002 7:59 AM


Mark:
I played it on my brothers machine. I found it really hard to control.
My favourite franchise has to be the rainbow 6/rogue spear/ghost recon line. Very accurate, good graphics & sound, a BLAST in multi-player. If I could change anything it would be to put Americas Army aim system into Ghost Recon.
Mammuthus: I had thought of picking up Rainbow 6 but it seemed like the learning curve was too steep. I also heard the computer AI sniping was inhumanly accurate. Multiplayer would depend as I am in Germany so if the game is not really big nearby I can't get a server with a low enough ping....and I play off a dial up modem not cable or DSL so it limits me a great deal. But high speed internet is outrageously expensive in Europe...they will never get anywhere here with the prices so high.
Mark:
This is a problem that ALL mp team based games have. There's always some prat that thinks it's funny to kill his own teammates. It is a real pleasure to spend an evening with good humoured players who cooperate, & don't mind taking it in turns covering the rear, & other critical but less popular roles that usually involves long periods with little action.
Mammuthus:
It extra sucks with AVP2 because most of the human weapons are things like flamethrowers and grenades so team killers can basically end a round in a few seconds. Also many of the options are by points so a team killer can be far more disruptive than in say Unreal Tournament...though most servers had friendly fire off for that game. But probably the biggest flaw in all the latest multiplayer games that I have seen is that the program does not enforce balanced teams...it is absolutely no fun to be in the middle of a round where things are even and then suddenly 7 players appear on the other team and completely overwhelm you side. To date UT is the only game I have seen where the balance was enforced in a manageable way...I actually enjoyed the slower pace of guard duty in capture the flag rounds. I don't mind minding the store

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by mark24, posted 10-29-2002 7:59 AM mark24 has not replied

  
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