Why NOT Christ Lineage through Joesph's boodline, Instead of Judah's

OK, I recently, well a while back started a thread on this to which I got A LOT of "talking in circles", answers. Here ie the deal:A few months back our Pastor asked this question: "Here is your "homework: Why did not the lineage of Jesus Christ go through Jacob's son Joesph, AND why did it go through Judah's boodline? I need specific answers to both pqrts of the question"Well after searching/looking/asking/crossreferencing/ et.al. I STILL cannot come up with BOTH parts' answers.So What am I asking for...?I need someone to explain specifics on why Judah. AND WHY NOT, Joesph.I know that your thinking: Is it in the Bible? The answer is YES, our pastor said It IS IN There.SO please give me book:chapter:verses, and also, Please explain BOTH parts to me, PLEASE???I have really searched to no avail, Can someone PLEASE help me.May God Bless and Keep you Throughout the Holiday season!!!!

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

cheap answer: because jesus was god's son, not joseph's. but you're probably talking about the jacob and joseph in the old testament. on the off chance that he's NOT and it's a trick question:

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Jer 36:29-30

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And thou shalt say to Jehoiakim king of Judah, Thus saith the LORD; Thou hast burned this roll, saying, Why hast thou written therein, saying, The king of Babylon shall certainly come and destroy this land, and shall cause to cease from thence man and beast? Therefore thus saith the LORD of Jehoiakim king of Judah; He shall have none to sit upon the throne of David: and his dead body shall be cast out in the day to the heat, and in the night to the frost.

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1Ch 3:16 And the sons of Jehoiakim: Jeconiah his son, Zedekiah his son.

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jeconiah appears about verse 11 or 12 in matthew's genealogy of jesus. matthew presents a royal lineage, which would be neccessary to make jesus king, but luke presents a blood genealogy. they don't agree, and the line of kings is broken at jeconiah because of the babylonian captivity. some read this as god working around his own curse, but that bit of apology or mental gymnastics is up to you.i might also point out that matthew's genealogy favours the number 14 over agreeing with chronicles -- it leaves out the curse jehoiakim entirely, as well as three other kings. it's also substantially shorter than luke's.my person advice?

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1Ti 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: [so do].

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Tts 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

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but if it's joseph, son of jacob the old testament patriarch, not jesus's father joseph, son of jacob (according to matthew), i don't see why you need specific answers for both parts. just one will do:

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Gen 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him [shall] the gathering of the people [be].

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judah is the royal tribe of the jews. king david was the from the tribe of judah. for jesus to righfully be the messiah, and be a king of israel, he would have to be from david's line, and david was from judah. do you need a bunch of verses for that?

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Gen 46:12 And the sons of Judah; Er, and Onan, and Shelah, and Pharez, and Zerah: but Er and Onan died in the land of Canaan. And the sons of Pharez were Hezron and Hamul.

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Rth 4:18-22

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Now these [are] the generations of Pharez: Pharez begat Hezron, And Hezron begat Ram, and Ram begat Amminadab, And Amminadab begat Nahshon, and Nahshon begat Salmon, And Salmon begat Boaz, and Boaz begat Obed, And Obed begat Jesse, and Jesse begat David.

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2Sa 7:12-17

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And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took [it] from Saul, whom I put away before thee. And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever. According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

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how about you return this answer for the first part to your teacher: "what does either joseph have to do with anything?"

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אָרַח

Thanks, A LOT!!!!!

sure. let me know if that answers your question, and which one he meant.

Jesus descended from the house of David rather than Joseph himself because Jesus was born of His Father in heaven which has tremendous significance. Jesus said not to call anyone on earth "father" because we have one Father and he is in heaven. He is talking about all those born again of the Spirit of God now only have one Father. And God has always been Christ's ONLY Father which is precisely what makes him the Son of God.This message has been edited by Carico, 12-29-2005 09:29 AM

If Joseph were the real father of Jesus of Nazareth then that would disqualify Jesus from being the Messiah.No descendent of Jeconiah was to sit on the throne of David according to God's own promise in the book of Jeremiah.This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-03-2006 06:58 PMThis message has been edited by jaywill, 01-03-2006 06:59 PM

Isn't it amazing that the Bible itself proves that Jesus wasn't the messiah?All it takes is a careful reading of the text to prove that Jesus was no messiah.Brian

Quite correct. Which leaves another conumdrum that has to be explained away.To be of 'The seed of David', the person has to be of a direct line male decendent without a break in the lineage. Therefore, the lineage would have to go THROUGH Joseph. If Joseph was NOT the father, then Jesus would be the status of a Mamzer, and would not have been allowed in the temple.Combine this with the disagreement about Jesus birth date between Matthew and Luke, the two vastly differet nativity stories, the discrepency between Matthew and Lukes geneologies, you can see why the author of 2 timothy warned against being worried about endless geneologies.

carico: i'm not sure what i can say that i didn't already. i think i provided a pretty decent statement of the facts, above. however, let me address a few points: well, according to the new testament (both matthew AND luke) joseph is of beth-david. matthew in particular puts jesus not just in david's family, but in the royal line. this of course presents a major problem. the last royal king of beth-david was cursed. so he can't claim to be the heir to the throne that way. but that doesn't make him the heir to the line of judah, nor does it make him the king of israel. like i said, this is a bit of a problem. let's look at something else, for a second. i realize this is going to open a can of worms, but whatever.

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Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

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now, i know this is standard christian doctrine to read this as prophecy of christ. but it's not. psalms are psalms, not prophecy. this one is a psalm of david. look at the phrasing: the day he is made king, he will proclaim that god has said he is god's son, begotten that day. christ was god's son from the day he was born, and he was never literally king of israel.so, now for the abstract part. christ was a son of god. does being god's son make one king of israel? well, no.

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Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

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Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

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both of these take place before israel is a country (or so they say about job). and in job, satan is among the sons of god, plural. maybe even part of the group? and then there's this verse:

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Deu 32:8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

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apparently, in the septuagint, this says "...according to the number of the sons of God." "children of israel" doesn't make any sense, actually. when god divided the nations (genesis 11) israel (jacob) hadn't even been born, let alone have children. as "sons of god" it reads like god has set either and angel or a king over each country. the next verse says:

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Deu 32:9 For the LORD'S portion [is] his people; Jacob [is] the lot of his inheritance.

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...god is personally watching over israel. now, it's standard jewish doctrine, as well as christian, to read "sons of god" as divine in nature. and that made this verse entirely too polytheistic, which might be why it was changed in the 400 years between the texts we have. but i see no reason to read "son of god" as anything other than an idiomatic way of saying "king."

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אָרַח

but, you see, the problem is that messiah had to come from the line of david, which means going through jeconiah. the new testament tries to have it both ways.

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אָרַח

Jesus was a descendent of David. He was just a descendent of David through Mary.He was not a descendent of David through Joseph. Joseph was:1.) Not his real physical father2.) Was a descendent of David through a line in which God had promised no descendent of Jeconiah would be a king.There was a line through David's son Nathan. And another line through David's son Solomon.Jesus was David's descendent through Nathan via Mary.He was not a descendent of David through Solomon and Jeconiah via Joseph.This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-03-2006 11:02 PM

No problem. Jesus wasn't a King of Israel anyway.This message has been edited by jar, 01-03-2006 10:20 PM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Jesus is the divine Messianic King of Israel rejected by Israel.He is the rejected King. But He is the King of Israel.When He road into Jerusalem on a donkey He fulfilled the prophecy of Zechariah of the King of Israel coming into Zion humble and riding on a donkey:"Now this took place in order that what was spoken through the prophet might be fulfilled saying,

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Say to the daughter of Zion, Behold, your King is coming to you, meek and mounted on a donkey, and on a colt, a foal of a beast of burden" (Matt. 21:4,5 refering to Zechariah 9:9)

Yeah, I know some people use Zechariah as a messianic prophecy refering to Jesus, but if you read on it becomes pretty clear that it does not refer to Jesus, but to a coming warlord.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion