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Author Topic:   Are humans naturally violent?
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 16 of 32 (264735)
12-01-2005 11:38 AM


Don't call me violent, or I'll have to come over there and whup your....

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 17 of 32 (264738)
12-01-2005 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by lilfortuna
12-01-2005 11:14 AM


Re: Is violence a learned behavior?
well, lilfortuna, our bodies reflexively prepare for "violence", the flight-or-fight response: adrenaline surges, and pulse and respirations increase, to support the physical exertion involved.
Does naturally violent=inappropriately violent, i.e., likely to respond with violence when equally good nonviolent options are available?
Is it, then, an instance of being "naturally violent" to resist predation or assault with physical action? In other words, is it reasonable to describe self-defense as a (natural or learned) propensity for violence?
I have to answer with questions: brenna's point about definitions is a good one. I would press my debate opponent for definitions, since they will be arguing the assertion.
This message has been edited by Omnivorous, 12-01-2005 11:47 AM

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 18 of 32 (264743)
12-01-2005 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by lilfortuna
12-01-2005 11:24 AM


not really. it's more of a discussion. debate accomplishes nothing. discussion creates discourse and leads to new knowledge.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 19 of 32 (264762)
12-01-2005 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by lilfortuna
12-01-2005 11:19 AM


Websters---no Oxford in da house
Here ya go, lil fortuna!
Websters writes:
vi”o”lence \"v-lns, "v--\ n 1 : exertion of physical force so as to injure or abuse 2 : injury by or as if by infringement or profanation 3 : intense or furious often destructive action or force 4 : vehement feeling or expression : intensity 5 : jarring quality : discordance syn compulsion, coercion, duress, constraint
vi”o”lent \-lnt\ adj 1 : marked by extreme force or sudden intense activity 2 : caused by or showing strong feeling <~ words> 3 : extreme, intense 4 : emotionally agitated to the point of loss of self-control 5 : caused by force : not natural <~ death> ” vi”o”lent”ly adv

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 20 of 32 (264824)
12-01-2005 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by lilfortuna
11-29-2005 3:15 PM


Yes
Just look in the mirror at those two pointy canine teeth.

"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 32 (264827)
12-01-2005 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by lilfortuna
11-29-2005 3:15 PM


I was wondering if humans are naturally violent??
Some are, some aren't. Some people are born belligerent, some are born peaceful. This makes for much misery in life.
This message has been edited by robinrohan, 12-01-2005 04:20 PM

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 22 of 32 (264957)
12-02-2005 4:44 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by nator
12-01-2005 11:28 AM


But what did they dies of? If they died from something that modern medical science would easily fix, then it isn't a fair comparison.
That is true. A direct comparison is unfair, however, there is still no way that 10%-60% of the male population in a modern democracy are injured by male-to-male violence in a way that requires them to be saved by modern medical science.
In any case, the point is not that hunter-gatherer societies are more violent than modern ones but that violence is endemic among hunter-gatherers and thus can be considered part of man's "natural" state.

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lilfortuna
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 32 (265024)
12-02-2005 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Dr Jack
12-02-2005 4:44 AM


thanks everyone for ur comments... this will help me in my sch debate on wed.. thanks

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wnope
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 32 (267383)
12-09-2005 11:39 PM


Reading a book on the subject
Coincidentally, I am currently reading "Demonic Male," a book asking that very same question.
The answer, unfortunantly, is yes.
The first chimpanzee raid was recorded several years of Goodall's first reports. Several males from a rival clan crossed into enemy territory, found a lone male (named Godi), and proceeded to attack and kill him. No resources were gained by this, only some status added from females.
This is not singular. There are two recorded instances of these raids leading to the complete annhilation of a neighboring clan.
Though our experiences with primitive tribes that are uneffected by other civilizations is scare, in nearly all tribes there are recorded raids of this very nature or of higher order (such as warfare).

Replies to this message:
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jmrozi1
Member (Idle past 5893 days)
Posts: 79
From: Maryland
Joined: 12-09-2005


Message 25 of 32 (267431)
12-10-2005 3:10 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by wnope
12-09-2005 11:39 PM


Re: Reading a book on the subject
Violence is a natural tendency for human beings, but I think that the posts in general have assumed misconceptions of what this implies.
Violence is hardwired into our brains as a defense mechanism that in certain scenarios betters our chances for survival; so this is why it was selected by evolution to be part of our systems. Because of our well developed frontal lobes, we are able to choose to ignore this inclination to be violent, or to induce violence when no such inclination exists. I think most people who refer to "unfortunate" examples of violence are referring to violence within the context of this scenario. However, I would argue that this ability isn't a natural responce to certain stimuli, but the product of environmental influences.
By the same token, we also have a hardwired function for altruism, which has most of the same characteristics. The difference is that it is a more advanced function that considers the survival of the species over the survival of the individual. Though it might be difficult to understand how this function came to be, there is plenty of evidence for it existing. To find out more about biological altruism, check out this site: Biological Altruism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

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Replies to this message:
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Zawi
Member (Idle past 3630 days)
Posts: 126
From: UK
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 26 of 32 (267473)
12-10-2005 7:52 AM


Despite being inherently violent, humans seem to gravitate toward transforming the world into a non-violent one, such is our disposition to domesticate animals and, I suppose, other humans.
Are there instances of domestication in hunter-gatherer tribes, as opposed to agricultural tribes?

  
AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 32 (267531)
12-10-2005 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by jmrozi1
12-10-2005 3:10 AM


Need some help from you.
I notice that you registered twice. If this is the registration you want to keep, please let me know and we will delete the other on. If you prefer, we can merge the other one into this account as an alias. Just let us know your desires.
Welcome to EvC and we hope to learn much from you in the coming threads.

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    This message is a reply to:
     Message 25 by jmrozi1, posted 12-10-2005 3:10 AM jmrozi1 has replied

    Replies to this message:
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    jmrozi1
    Member (Idle past 5893 days)
    Posts: 79
    From: Maryland
    Joined: 12-09-2005


    Message 28 of 32 (267534)
    12-10-2005 12:32 PM
    Reply to: Message 27 by AdminJar
    12-10-2005 12:25 PM


    Re: Need some help from you.
    Yeah, whoops. Delete the other one.

    This message is a reply to:
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    AdminJar
    Inactive Member


    Message 29 of 32 (267536)
    12-10-2005 12:34 PM
    Reply to: Message 28 by jmrozi1
    12-10-2005 12:32 PM


    Re: Need some help from you.
    No problem, happens often. Thanks.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 28 by jmrozi1, posted 12-10-2005 12:32 PM jmrozi1 has not replied

      
    Carico
    Inactive Member


    Message 30 of 32 (268160)
    12-12-2005 12:43 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by lilfortuna
    11-29-2005 3:15 PM


    I realize that most people would not like to think of themselves as violent, otherwise this question wouldn't have been asked. But yes, we are all capable of violence as the world shows us. If, for example, someone raped one of our children and we were confronted with that person, we are very capable of hurting that person. All one has to do is look at children to see what the natural instincts of man are. Children have to learn to act civilly towards each other which is why we have laws. Yet adults can't even act civilly towards each other if there weren't laws enforcing civil behavior. Without laws, each man is capable of rationalizing anything, including murder if he feels offended. That is also why there is so much debate about capital punishment, self-defense, insanity defenses, etc. Without rules on this forum, for example, there would be a lot more swearing and cursing each other. Human beings by nature, live to satisfy our own desires, period.
    This message has been edited by Carico, 12-12-2005 12:44 PM

    This message is a reply to:
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