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Author Topic:   evolution of magnetic sense?
ironic_lettuce
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 6 (88592)
02-25-2004 11:23 AM


Hi
I'm doing an essay on how marine animals may use the magnetic field of the earth to navigate across the globe - I was just wondering if anyone could tell me where I can get some info on the evolution of this ability? Or why not all animals use it?
Thanks in advance
IL

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Itzpapalotl, posted 02-25-2004 1:41 PM ironic_lettuce has not replied
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Itzpapalotl
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 6 (88624)
02-25-2004 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ironic_lettuce
02-25-2004 11:23 AM


I don't ahve any info on the evolution of the sense but these articles might help the essay:
2003b Walker, M.M., Diebel, C.E., & J.L. Kirschvink: Detection and Use of the Earth’s Magnetic Field by Aquatic Vertebrates. In: Sensory Processing in Aquatic Environments, (S. P. Collin & N. J. Marshall, eds.), Springer-Verlag, New York, pp. 53-74. http://www.gps.caltech.edu/...schvink/pdfs/WalkerAquatic.pdf
2002g Walker, M.M., Dennis, T.E., and Kirschvink, J.L.: The magnetic sense and its use in long-distance navigation by animals. Current Opinion in Neurobiology,12: 735-744. http://www.gps.caltech.edu/...irschvink/pdfs/COINBWalker.pdf
2001d Kirschvink, J.L., Walker, M.M. Deibel, C. Magnetite-based Magnetoreception. Current Opinion in Neurobiology, 11, 462-467. http://www.gps.caltech.edu/users/jkirschvink/pdfs/COINS.pdf this has a small section on the evolution of the sense.

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 Message 1 by ironic_lettuce, posted 02-25-2004 11:23 AM ironic_lettuce has not replied

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Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5051 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 3 of 6 (88632)
02-25-2004 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ironic_lettuce
02-25-2004 11:23 AM


I dont think you will find much if anything on why they "dont" use it for then there would be little work on what they do do with it as since Mesmerism magnetics and biology have not been the membrane they could HAVE BEEN. When Keeton asked physicists about the pigeon flying cockeyed in NYSTATE the PhDs informed the biologist that he had been using outmoded physical ideas to inform the interpretation of data. Oh well- my brother physicists still have technology up on me.

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 Message 1 by ironic_lettuce, posted 02-25-2004 11:23 AM ironic_lettuce has not replied

  
Gary
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 6 (88739)
02-26-2004 3:28 AM


I don't have any reliable sources at hand, but maybe you could look for information on animals that use an organ that detects gravity to right themselves. For example, the human inner ear does this, and crawfish eat sand and keep it inside their bodies, and it sinks in the direction of gravity so they don't swim upside down. If you give the crawfish iron filings to eat instead of sand, they will orient themselves toward a magnetic field. It could be that animals that have sort of a biological compass operate in a similar fashion, but I am not an expert by any means.

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5051 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 5 of 6 (89254)
02-28-2004 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Itzpapalotl
02-25-2004 1:41 PM


I hope this helps
see also "Sensory Exotica: A World Beyond Human Experience" by Howard C. Hughes and Animals Behaviour:A Series Edited by TR Halliday and PJB Slater 1 Causes and Effects" and "2Communication"
You will be able to find "Away form the equator, the earth's magnetic field has a vertical component,and at the poles a freely suspended magnetic compass points vertically. Bottom-dwelling bacteria which are adapted to low oxygen tensions use the vertical component of the earth's field to keep themselves headed downwards and away from dangerously high oxygen levels"
"Little magnets in the Head? Well, this is all very fascinating. But when you are trying to establish the existence of a new sensory modality, you really need a recpetor. It's like a habeous corpus. The authorities are not going to accept the evidence of a new sensory modality without identification of the receptor."
You may ask youself, "why is this so". WHY MUST THERE BE such a reception?? If instead you used Quine's notions of attribute and KNOW that some infinite unity (exists) for any class aggregated or not the very 1-D symmetry of protein, RNA, and DNA then a 'staionary atom' Godel notion"" as Quine quoted certainly prima facie seems to suggest no such "physical receptor" be needed. There has been an interesting sociological "shift" of logic appearing to me in my generation that what in the 1850s was taken as the argument of design was perceived as a posteriori but today there is a potential THAT THE SAME is a priori with many saying no such apriori ADDTIONALY exists, ie that it does not exist. Let me not do you homework for you. Also other's simply "balk" here when I give my own personal shorthand. So simply answer the question and you will be on your way to a good paper.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Itzpapalotl, posted 02-25-2004 1:41 PM Itzpapalotl has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Saviourmachine, posted 03-05-2004 4:19 PM Brad McFall has not replied

  
Saviourmachine
Member (Idle past 3572 days)
Posts: 113
From: Holland
Joined: 01-16-2004


Message 6 of 6 (90618)
03-05-2004 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Brad McFall
02-28-2004 10:46 AM


Re: I hope this helps
Brad writes:
You will be able to find "Away form the equator, the earth's magnetic field has a vertical component,and at the poles a freely suspended magnetic compass points vertically. Bottom-dwelling bacteria which are adapted to low oxygen tensions use the vertical component of the earth's field to keep themselves headed downwards and away from dangerously high oxygen levels"
You searched for 'magnet' and 'head'?
This post conveys more information than the two aimed for me, you're improving! But you've to explain this to me:
If instead you used Quine's notions of attribute and KNOW that some infinite unity (exists) for any class aggregated or not the very 1-D symmetry of protein, RNA, and DNA then a 'staionary atom' Godel notion"" as Quine quoted certainly prima facie seems to suggest no such "physical receptor" be needed.
What's the relation with a physical receptor?
Admin, what kind of user is this? See also for example post 114 in the topic about complexity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Brad McFall, posted 02-28-2004 10:46 AM Brad McFall has not replied

  
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