If you were God, what kind of God would you be?

I've got an even better one.I rescued a man, from certain death with considerable risk to my own life, yet we prevailed. However, the man gave creadit to god! Should I kill him?

---

I hunt for the truth

The things that happened during Isreals history was for a purpose and once that purpose was realised, wars directed by God could and did cease. Even the OT says that people would have to learn to 'beat their swords into ploughshears and their spears into pruning shears' because God would make wars cease. Abraham was also familiar with Gods promise to provide a ransomer for mankind...perhaps he was seeing the bigger picture.

well i certainly hope that you apply this to your government too...they have been involved in wars that have killed innocent civilians, yes?therefore your government, my government and the USA government are all guilty of the same thing. How many children have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan since our countries invaded? do you know?Why is it ok to support our nations as they go to war, but to condemn God for choosing to war against his enemy?and you are wrong....i was not bought up with religion.

This comparison is absurd. The idol-worshippers were not at war. They had not taken up arms against Moses or God. They were simply worshipping in the way they saw fit (and dancing around naked).What modern democracy has gone to war to stop people from pursuing their religion Peg? How about the Great War Against Naked Dancing? When was that?Furthermore, the deaths of children in war are collateral damage. I'm not saying that this necessarily excuses the governments involved, but at least they are not deliberately targeting children. If they could avoid hurting children, they would; sadly bombs are indiscriminate. God, on the other hand, who one imagines could target whoever he likes, is described as deliberately targeting innocent children.

quote:

---

And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

---

Not even the baby animals get a pass! God deliberately kills puppies!God could easily have visited his wrath upon the Pharaoh (even though it was God who had already hardened his heart) but instead he chose to kill children. Specifically. Deliberately. In cold blood. With a free range of targets, including, one presumes, just about anybody in Egypt, God chose to slaughter infants, en masse.There is a big difference between that kind of act and the actions of modern military forces, who at least make an effort to minimise innocent casualties.Mutate and Survive

---

"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

how do you know what constitutes an act of war in Gods eyes?It would appear from the account about Egypt that Pharaohs 'defiance' was constituted an act of war right, so you acknowledge that death of children is collateral damage in a time of war. It happens in modern times and no one says 'hey we better not go to war because children will die'No, they go anyway becuase they know that there is a greater purpose that needs to be achieved in order to create peace for everybody.This is the case with the Cannanites. It was the case with Egypt and it will be the case with the next and final war.

a) God hardened Pharaoh's heart remember. Pharaoh was not morally culpable for his actions, God was.b) If you chose to redefine "act of war" to fit in with whatever is most convenient, anything could be an act of war. Drinking a cup of coffee could be an act of war, if you redefine "act of war" to include coffee drinking. That doesn't make it a meaningful statement.Describing the free choice made by Aaron and the other idol-worshippers as an "act of war" is nonsensical. They attacked no-one. They took up arms against no-one. Moses started the hostilities, not Aaron. All Aaron did was dance around in the nuddy in front of a big bull, which sounds like a reasonably fun night out to me. Calling it an "act of war" is patently absurd and a touch desperate.You are trying to define yourself into a morally acceptable position by means of equivocation. Fortunately, for society as a whole, that doesn't fly. No-one except all the people who do say that. Don't be silly. Many people oppose wars, both specific conflicts and war in general. the suffering of children is a prime reason given. You are missing the point (or ignoring it). This logic is all well and good when applied to a human war; we would all like to avoid innocent casualties, but sometimes we can't if we are to achieve our goal. Sometimes it is unavoidable. This logic does not and cannot apply to God.God can avoid innocent casualties if he wishes; or do you think it beyond his powers?God specifically chose to target the children of Egypt; he could have chosen another way; or do you think that beyond his powers?And of course, God could simply not have hardened Pharaoh's heart in the first place, and so removed any need to slaughter any innocents. He deliberately engineered a situation where he was defied and then punished innocent children for the defiance he created, even though those children had nothing to do with it.There is no comparison to made between human conflicts and the actions of an enormously powerful entity like God. He has the power to achieve his aims without shedding innocent blood, yet he still murders infants, again and again. Maybe he just likes a bit of blood.Mutate and Survive

---

"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

Well you are the one claiming a God given objective morality here. Is killing children morally OK? Or not? Or does it depend on situation and circumstance?What is gods view on the morality of killing innocent children and how are we to discern his views on this matter such that we can comply with his laws on this in all possible situations?Or are you sayingthat we have to use our fallible human judgement to make such moral decisions in practise?

I'm not talking about wars though, am I? I am talking about obeying or disobeying a direct command from god. You have said that he must know what he does, since he is perfect, and so when he commands you to kill some infants, you should obey him. Yet you won't. This puzzled me, and so I asked how we are to determine when we are to follow his command and when we aren't. So...all it takes is for you to be convinced that there will be a future ransomer of mankind, and you'd go on an infant killing spree? Yes or no please. And please, explain why (not).

---

I hunt for the truth

Hi John 10:101) What kind of God would I be?
2) What kind of cosmos would I have created?1) I suppose I would have to be a god that enjoys creating a cosmos, given the 2nd question.2) I would create a cosmos where I stamped Made by God on everything, and I would give every single person born into this cosmos a DVD box set showing the different stages of the cosmos’s construction. I would also make the cosmos with a glass bottom, so everyone could see Hell, and I’d fit a glass bottom on Heaven, so they could look up and see that too. Anyone who sniggered while looking up the skirts of saints and angels would be frowned upon but ultimately forgiven (they'd only be human, after all).Edited by tuffers, : Typo

Quote: As GM has already stated above - your comparison is pure junk. No wars started by man has, that I know of, been with the intention to wipe out babies and children - even the Nazis followed Geneva convention rules.But your genocidal maniacal God who presumably has the omnipotent power to wipe out only those who cause his 'wrath' still takes out babies and children....what a moral coward and complete waste of space....no excuses for there is none that can be given.And whilst we are on the subject of man-made wars lets not forget that a great many of them have been fomented over the business of religion in the first place. It seems Peg that your brand of religious indoctrination leads to intolerance,injustice and racial dislike (for all wars bar civil wars are by definition racial).Once more I thank my lucky stars that I wasn't brought up an indoctrinated bigoted irrational racially intolerant sad excuse for a religous cause. There is no difference in my opinion between you and those who took out the twin towers save for a different slant on 'God'.I don't believe you've answered Huntard's query yet..."If God instructed you in a dream to kill others would you?" If the answer is "Yes" I think we have come to the end of the road with you. If the answer is "No" please justify why you feel able to disobey your God, and if the answer is maybe, buts, ifs and conditional answers then again why do you not just obey - as he is the all powerful being who knows what's best ....isn't he???

that seems very naive... especially the part about the nazi's seeing they were sending children to the gas chambers! i think you've already answered this on my behalf, i need not say anymore.

I still don't know if gods objective morality decrees the killing of children as OK in some circumstances, such as war, or not.Is the killing of children sometimes morally justified? How can I find out gods view on this question?Or will I have to use my own fallible mortal moral judgement when faced with such moral dilemmas?

Sorry, this maybe my fault, but I don't see an answer to my queston in his post. Would you mind providing me with some clarity? Shoiuld we obey every command god gives us? And if not, how do we determine which ones to follow and which not?

---

I hunt for the truth

1Corintians 33 says "For God is [a God], not of disorder, but of peace"The state he most assumes is one of peace, which is why his laws have always condemned killing of any kind...even killing animals without the purpose of using them for food or clothing is expressed in the laws given to Isreal. So its wrong to assume that the condones killing or encourages it or promotes it.He is also a God of holiness, righteousness, and justice and these qualities compel him to act and use his destructive power at times. but he does not blemish his holiness when he fights. Rather, he fights because he is holy, righteous and just.there are accounts in the bible where he has turned back from destroying a nation because they made peace with him (Ninevah) There is also evidence that when those who were to be destroyed in war asked for mercy, he complied and spared them (the cannanite city of Gibeon & Rahab and her family)So while he does at times act out of justice, he is also capable of mercy and of saving those who request it. He does not kill indiscriminately has has been suggested.In the case of the children of the Canaanites, their parents chose to go to war and put their children and families in danger. Saddam chose to put his nations children in danger when he refused to comply with the UN and had sanctions imposed upon the nation....many children suffered because of his own defiance. This is the same case with the Canaanites, they refused to surrender and chose to fight and therefore God allowed them to feel the full force of his power. But this is the point...it was their choice, not his.

quote:

---

Ezekiel 18:21-23 ‘Now as regards someone wicked, in case he should turn back from all his sins that he has committed and he should actually keep all my statutes and execute justice and righteousness, he will positively keep living. He will not die. 22All his transgressions that he has committedthey will not be remembered against him. For his righteousness that he has done he will keep living.’

​

23"‘Do I take any delight at all in the death of someone wicked [and] not in that he should turn back from his ways and actually keep living?’"

---

I replied in msg 173"of course notbesides, he'd never ask "