Evolution or Creation

If you turned down the moon and three stars of your choice, do you think anybody would be impressed by your "convictions"?On the contrary, it seems like a sad attempt to convince yourself that you're right.

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I guess you have had your head buried in the sand then.Before the Big Bang

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WHAT HAPPENED before the big bang? Try asking a cosmologist this and they'll usually fob you off by saying it's a meaningless question. Stephen Hawking famously likened it to asking "What's north of the North Pole?" The big bang, the idea goes, was the ultimate beginning. Time and space came into being then. There was no "before".

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But that may not be true after all. One daring physicist has come up with an answer to the question no one is supposed to ask. If he is right, the Universe began an unimaginably long time before the big bang. "Far from being the beginning of time, the big bang was merely an important turning point in the Universe's history," says Gabriele Veneziano of CERN, the European Laboratory for Particle Physics near Geneva.

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So who has the misconception? Yahoo or Google string theory, or superstring theory.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Thanks for the vote of confidence Ringo but I do not need it as I know what I believe and why.

I'm just sayin'... if you're not whistling in the dark, what's the point of this topic?You've been told the benefits of truth over delusion. You refuse to listen. You've demonstrated a less-than-zero understanding of science. You refuse to learn.Thanks to you, the Atheist International Conspiracy has people lining up to sign.

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I think I pointed out in the op that the manuscripts have been copied and possibly have had things inserted by the scribes.But I find no conflicts in the Genesis account of creation.
In fact there is no conflict with Genesis account of creation and Science. Until you get past the first single cell life form that nobody knows where, how or why it appeared in a universe that came from an infinitely small nothing (singularity) that nobody knows where, how, or why it appeared.The Genesis account of creation does disagree with Evolution so called. They are not compatiable.BTW The Genesis account of creation does not even disagree with the superstring theory that the universe is much older than the big bang theory has it. I have stated the earth could be trillions or even trillion trillions of years old. In fact somewhere on this forum I stated that you can not write a number big enough as to disagree with Genesis 1:1, In the Beginning.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

I thought we covered this. A singularity isn't a "nothing." It's very much a "something." In fact, by definition, this particular singularity was "everything."If you compressed all the mass of the universe into a point of infinite density, how could that possibly be a nothing?

I was going to say that I don't want to convince you of anything. But perhaps that isn't true. I don't want to convince you of anything specific like this, but I do suppose I want to convince you of the existance of an alternative thinking process. Your welcome. And it's true, specifically for you personally, ICANT. As long as you do not want to seek objective truth, atheism has nothing to offer you.It still comes down to what you want. If you want any popular way to feel good, and to feel happy, and to feel fulfilled, and to feel like your life had meaning, and to feel that you'll live forever. Then your current choice of religious answers will fit you perfectly and I'd never try to alter that from you.However, if you're interested in objective truth, and understanding how this universe we currently live in works. If you want to feel good, and happy, and fulfilled, and have meaning in concrete ways that you can be assured you're not being fooled by yourself or anyone else. Then I have an alternative method of thinking for you to consider. I have seen the Bible's answers as well. And then I look around me to how this universe is. And I have found nothing that supports these answers. I am not sure that what is written in the Bible is actually what has happened in this world. I could accept it, yet I care deeply about objective truth. I cannot personally accept something that is written, or told to me, without having it shown to me that such a thing is true. No matter who has written or told me such things.Well, I can, but only for minor issues that have no real importance. For anything of larger consequence, I need to make sure I'm not fooling myself, or being fooled by others. The Bible alone does not pass this test. Yes. I do know how stupid this can sound. However, if that's all we are able to know, does it make sense to grab some other answer that we are not sure could be fooling us?Maybe I'll try a little parable...--------------------------
Let's say I'm playing an old Sierra computer game. Let's say I'm playing King's Quest I. This is an adventure game, the player is a knight and is allowed to roam a basic 3D world, and interact with it in the hopes of solving problems and completing the game (becoming a King).Let's say the player of this game is wondering what happened before King's Quest I.Objective Truth Player: I have studied this game as much as I can, yet I cannot find anything that tells me what happened before the game started. No storyline, no background. It just seems to start with being a knight. What happened before King's Quest I? I don't know, perhaps it is impossible to know.Promise-Seeking Player: I have found the Strategy Guide to Police Quest. It is all about a very similar 3D world game. It explains all the same actions and abilities of King's Quest I. It says here that Police Quest was created with the help of Jim Walls! Therefore, before King's Quest I there was Jim Walls!!
--------------------------The point is:The Objective Truth Seeker is content with not knowing all the answers, as long as the answers he does know are based in objective truth within his reality.The Promise Seeker is content with any answer as long as it came from a seemingly authoritative source. There is little care if this answer corresponds exactly with reality.So really, ICANT, it still depends on what you want.Do you want promises from extremely authoritative sources?Or do you want to understand objective truth for yourself?If you are content with trusting your authoritative sources, then you do not need anything more.If you have a desire to know for yourself the objective truth of this world, there have been many before you who have done a lot of hard work. Their information is available for you if you'd like to see it. And you can see this information, understand it, and even fully agree with it without losing your faith, your God, or your Christianity.

So you concede that the genesis could be alegory. After all god can be a poet if he wants to. I'm gone be nice to you and pretend you mis-spoke

First I want to say thanks to each who have participated in this discourse. I especially thank the ADMINPD for such broad latitude in our discussions.I like Dr Adequate did not think this would get promoted but I am thankful that it did, as I have had to read and study a lot of material in the past few days.I do not know how much time I will be able to put in, in the comming days as it is back to the grindstone Sunday (recoperation time is over). So it is back to work.I want to especially thank those that tried to give an honest answer and reasonable response to the OP.DrJones Message 30Doddy Message 39Stile Message 48Ringo Message 118 Reminds me I have been told a benefit. I am not going to sift through every post to find the author so I just say thanks.If I left anyone out thanks.The rest of you have been pushing an agenda but it has not been wasted. Do you realize how many hours I have had to read and research to try to answer all the different questions coming from all different directions at one time.As I count there have been 23 posters opposed to a lot I have posted although many things were avoided like a plague.There was one poster Neutralmind that tried to point out my questions.RAZD was cordial and tried to be helpful thanks.Now for a couple of things I did not get to yet: I agree with you ramoss. But I had no outside pressure of any kind.
This was in 1946 to 1949, we had no TV we did have a battery radio that we listened to the grand old opery on Sat. night. I did beg and get to listen to the Louis Walcott fight in 1947. The local church had services once a month. It was more like a family reunion than anything else. The only thing religious in the home was Grandpa would say "Thank You" before we were allowed to eat. Mind you that is all that he said. But I loved to read and all we had was an old KJV bible so I read, and man did I have a problem with the names, so I just called them elephant and went on. By the time I was reading the Bible for the third time I could pronounce a lot of the names, but there are many I still have a problem with even after studying Hebrew..

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If you compressed all the mass of the universe into a point of infinite density, how could that possibly be a nothing?
  —crashfrog

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Sure sounds like nothing to me.

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If you have a desire to know for yourself the objective truth of this world, there have been many before you who have done a lot of hard work. Their information is available for you if you'd like to see it.
  —Stile

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I have read thousands of pages in the last 38 days and after reading all that information I am more convinced that what I believe is correct now more than I have ever been.Have Fun"John 3:18 (KJV) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Not to send us off-topic, but you really need to do more research. Not only does the word "nothing" not appear where you quoted, but it really seems like you don't really understand these cosmological models.

Were we supposed to critique your entire OP where you twisted around the scriptures because you thought somehow the scriptures got mixed up? So we have a teleporting man existing before the earth was void? Forgive me for thinking that you took the Bible literally when you said that if you couldn't believe Genesis, you couldn't believe rest of the Bible. Obviously, you don't believe Genesis as it was written so you must not believe the rest of the Bible as written. How do you know that man hasn't added the entire creation story? No conflict, except for that little water-existing-before-stars thing...oh, and that minor night-and-day-separation-before-the-sun-was-created thing. Yep...looks like the description of the creation of the universe that we see in Genesis closely matches the current theories from modern cosmology. {end sarcasm}Give me a break! The Genesis account isn't any closer to "Science" before the first single cell than it is after. Even your reordering of the events does not make the two mesh any better.

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Prove to me where the first single cell life form came from, how and why.

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Prove to me where your great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother came from, how and why.If you cannot, I refuse to believe that such a person existed.Furthermore, I won't believe that you exist, either.Edited by nator, : No reason given.

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But I find no conflicts in the Genesis account of creation.

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How is it possible that "day" and "night" were created on one day, but the Sun was created at a later time?

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I have read thousands of pages in the last 38 days and after reading all that information I am more convinced that what I believe is correct now more than I have ever been.

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I guess that means that you do, in fact, think that Biologists are stupid, incompetent scientists.

My great great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother and my great great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather had sex. My great great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother got pregnant. Nine months later my great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother was born without complications. Because my great great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather refused to allow my great great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother to have an abortion.Enjoy
Sorry AdminPD nator made me do it.